PLA Navy news, pics and videos
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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The first part you missed roughly means:
"there is no such thing as L (variant). There was no changes made to propulsion and combat system, only limited changes to ship hull. This does not constitute a new variant."
I think he is talking about the new 052D with accomodations for Z-20, and officially they are not called 052DL.
I think it can mean 054B is around the corner but that it might also not be produced and commissioned at the speed at which 054As can be.
We've had rumours for years that 054B is meant to feature some potentially significant improvements; IEPS, larger size, more capable radars and likely weapons. There's a good chance it will be heavier as well, but exactly how much larger is unknown.
Given all that, I wouldn't be surprised if 054B is as big of an improvement relative to 054A as 052D was to 052C, or perhaps an even bigger improvement, and with an associated greater delay in achieving effective combat capability between the first lead ships.
Hypothetically, even if the first 054B is laid down next year, and let's say launched in 2022, it will likely still take 1.5 years of sea trials to fully verify all the new bits and bobs as well as an additional 1.5 years after commissioning for the book to be written and for them to be able to seriously commission them faster in a combat ready state.
054As OTOH are a very well known quantity to the shipyards, their subsuppliers, and the PLAN. I wouldn't be surprised if they are able to build 20 of them within 5 years and for each ship to effectively be near combat ready upon commissioning as well, by say 2026.
OTOH, for 054Bs they might only be able to build and make combat ready a fraction of that.
Now the question is whether the 054A production will be taking away from capacity that could have been used for 054B production or if it is in addition to 054B production.
I wouldn't be surprised if combat management system, internal arrangements, are improved, with minor sensor improvements.
I also do think extending the helipad and modifying the hangar to accommodate Z-20 is likely.
But I'm skeptical if they will introduce the UVLS. I expect them to continue using the same VLS, and I expect the addition of 20 054As will see the HHQ-16 continue to see more variants going into the future. It is a reasonably sized missile so it definitely has lots of potential
I'm also a little doubtful if it will have a new radar system -- it certainly isn't impossible, and perhaps leveraging the Pakistani 054APs and their radar outfit could be plausible.
However at the same time part of the reason for going for additional 054As should likely be to exploit the well, true and proven shipbuilding/subsystem line and also to exploit the navy's massive familiarity with the ship class to bring them into service as soon as possible as quickly as possible.
I feel that PLAN is very happy with the 054A. It has been a good workhorse over the years, and it may even be that PLAN is regretting its decision to stop the production of the last batch. There might have been an internal debate similar to many Chinese netizens saying they should kill the 056A and the 054A and concentrate everything on the 052DL and 055 instead.
That's why 054A gets an additional 20, even if the 052DL gets only an additional 9 based on that picture, and the 055 gets another 8. The number for the 055 is appropriate as it means it gets a bigger budget, and I would assume a single 055 has a cost similar to four or five 054A.
I see the 054A keeping the AJK-16 and the HHQ-16, which is likely to remain SARH, and there are advantages of SARH at closer ranges. But one thing I may see might be a potential of change is the Front Dome illuminators, which can be replaced by a solid state AESA unit. Already the land based HQ-16 units are changing to a new fire control radar with an AESA illuminator.
But from the first 054A (no. 529) to the last 054A (no. 542), there has been visually minute changes to the ship but in terms of electronics, they are potentially significant.
Change from Type 730 to 1130 CIWS. That's was obvious.
Change of Type 206 towed active/passive sonar to Type 211.
Retrofits of flat panel SATCOMs and datalinks in the rear of the ship.
Addition of new SATCOM in some ships.
#529 and #530 features a new skirt array under the main radar. Not sure what its purpose.
#599, #600, #601 and #542 features a modified 751-1 ESM, replacement of 751-2 ESM/ECM to 726-3 ECM, a new skirt array around the Type 364 radar, and a new SATCOM.
In a new 054A batch, I don't see the point of why the 054A ever had a separate EW system from the destroyers, this Type 751 vs. the 726 used with the destroyers. The refits of the 052, 051B, 136/137 DDG, and even the 053H3, all choose to use the full Type 726 EW suite also standard on the Liaoning, Shandong and the 075, rather than the Type 751 EW suite used by the 054A. \At the last four 054A batch, they have already chosen to replace the Type 751 ECM unit to the 726-3, if the trend continues, they should dump the 751 ESM unit for the pair of 726-1 and 726-2 ESM, to bring the ship in line with the rest of the fleet, having a full, not hybrid, Type 726 EW and DLS system.
I also see the possibility of changing the Type 382 to its dual sided AESA replacement, and the Type 364 with the smaller dual sided which debuted on the 075. The Type 364 Sea Gull replacement might sooner be on another ship due to it already approved for ship use already on the 075, while the Type 382 Sea Eagle replacement has yet to deployed on any warship other than a test ship. I don't see any replacement of the Type 347 and 366 fire control radars used on the 054A.
That's why 054A gets an additional 20, even if the 052DL gets only an additional 9 based on that picture, and the 055 gets another 8. The number for the 055 is appropriate as it means it gets a bigger budget, and I would assume a single 055 has a cost similar to four or five 054A.
I see the 054A keeping the AJK-16 and the HHQ-16, which is likely to remain SARH, and there are advantages of SARH at closer ranges. But one thing I may see might be a potential of change is the Front Dome illuminators, which can be replaced by a solid state AESA unit. Already the land based HQ-16 units are changing to a new fire control radar with an AESA illuminator.
But from the first 054A (no. 529) to the last 054A (no. 542), there has been visually minute changes to the ship but in terms of electronics, they are potentially significant.
Change from Type 730 to 1130 CIWS. That's was obvious.
Change of Type 206 towed active/passive sonar to Type 211.
Retrofits of flat panel SATCOMs and datalinks in the rear of the ship.
Addition of new SATCOM in some ships.
#529 and #530 features a new skirt array under the main radar. Not sure what its purpose.
#599, #600, #601 and #542 features a modified 751-1 ESM, replacement of 751-2 ESM/ECM to 726-3 ECM, a new skirt array around the Type 364 radar, and a new SATCOM.
In a new 054A batch, I don't see the point of why the 054A ever had a separate EW system from the destroyers, this Type 751 vs. the 726 used with the destroyers. The refits of the 052, 051B, 136/137 DDG, and even the 053H3, all choose to use the full Type 726 EW suite also standard on the Liaoning, Shandong and the 075, rather than the Type 751 EW suite used by the 054A. \At the last four 054A batch, they have already chosen to replace the Type 751 ECM unit to the 726-3, if the trend continues, they should dump the 751 ESM unit for the pair of 726-1 and 726-2 ESM, to bring the ship in line with the rest of the fleet, having a full, not hybrid, Type 726 EW and DLS system.
I also see the possibility of changing the Type 382 to its dual sided AESA replacement, and the Type 364 with the smaller dual sided which debuted on the 075. The Type 364 Sea Gull replacement might sooner be on another ship due to it already approved for ship use already on the 075, while the Type 382 Sea Eagle replacement has yet to deployed on any warship other than a test ship. I don't see any replacement of the Type 347 and 366 fire control radars used on the 054A.
You mean like YJ-12? That's up to the PLAN. Or they can be using an upgraded YJ-83 or a YJ-83 successor. Who knows at this point. If I were on the driver's chair, I would, and there is no technical reason why not too, but I'm not in the driver's seat.
Translation:
Do not feel contained by current military equipment development, as far as Chinese military equipment goes, our conceptual work are already far in advance of the the US empire. In terms of technology we are closing in quick and will soon overtake the US.
For example, the PLAN New Concept Warship
When the Chinese New Concept Warship comes roaring across the horizon it will shake the world.
PLAN's development has always been pragmatic and conservative
But under each pragmatic and conservative foot step are vast accumulation of energy
In the last two decades, PLAN's advancement always seem conservative in the short term, but if you look at over a long time horizon the advancement have been dramatic.
In these two decades we have resolved the issue of going from nothing to something, to overtake in certain areas
From obsolete to leading the way in some areas
Our PLAN's steps have been firm and pragmatic
Listen on and wait for the thunder that will pierce the silence, PLAN's advancement equipment will soon look down upon the entire globe
Can someone confirm that's POP3's account?
People are widely guessing what this "New Concept Warship" could be, the guesses are:
- 076, with it's "light carrier" concept
- Ma Weiming's "All Energy Warship" concept
- someone no one expects
Skywatcher
Captain
The second option (which I believe was also referred to as the "Universal Combat Ship")?
IIRC, it had IEPS, magnetically assisted VLS, railguns and lasers (I think it's probably separate from that semisubmersible large surface combatant concept).