PLA 6th generation fighter thread

[Blitzo]

Pictures from Weibo :

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This is a decent depiction IMO of what a 6th generation airframe could look like.

A no nonsense tailless high speed flying wing.
Large ventral weapons bays, allowing carriage of large outsize weapons internally or allowing carriage of a large number of small/medium size weapons, complemented by side weapons bays dedicated for small/medium size weapons.
One caveat I would offer is I don't think a dedicated SRAAM like PL-10 will be a primary weapon for 6th generation fighters, and something even smaller than PL-10/AIM-9X/ASRAAM etc is likely to emerge, something Cuda sized. A small/medium size side weapons bay would likely best be designed to accommodate both multiple Cuda sized weapons in the space of an equivalent number of conventionally sized BVR missiles.

Not so sure about the large cockpit/canopy, if it's meant to depict a single seater or a twin seater, as we don't know where the balancing point for automation and desired command capability will be for 6th generation aircraft. It may or may not be sensible to pursue a twin seater depending on where that balancing point is.

That chin mounted thing is strange, it doesn't appear to be an EO sensor, and I have to assume the creator took some liberties to put some kind of DEW there. I'm not yet sure if DEW will be a definite feature of 6th generation fighters nor what kind of configuration they will have.

Overall of course, the airframe itself is quite large with a massive radome and plentiful volume and space for embedded/conformal sensors.

The art itself takes cues from the J-20 prototypes in primer, as do the landing gear doors.

 

[KampfAlwin]

What is an DEW

Directed Energy Weapon

 

[siegecrossbow]

This is a decent depiction IMO of what a 6th generation airframe could look like.

A no nonsense tailless high speed flying wing.
Large ventral weapons bays, allowing carriage of large outsize weapons internally or allowing carriage of a large number of small/medium size weapons, complemented by side weapons bays dedicated for small/medium size weapons.
One caveat I would offer is I don't think a dedicated SRAAM like PL-10 will be a primary weapon for 6th generation fighters, and something even smaller than PL-10/AIM-9X/ASRAAM etc is likely to emerge, something Cuda sized. A small/medium size side weapons bay would likely best be designed to accommodate both multiple Cuda sized weapons in the space of an equivalent number of conventionally sized BVR missiles.

Not so sure about the large cockpit/canopy, if it's meant to depict a single seater or a twin seater, as we don't know where the balancing point for automation and desired command capability will be for 6th generation aircraft. It may or may not be sensible to pursue a twin seater depending on where that balancing point is.

That chin mounted thing is strange, it doesn't appear to be an EO sensor, and I have to assume the creator took some liberties to put some kind of DEW there. I'm not yet sure if DEW will be a definite feature of 6th generation fighters nor what kind of configuration they will have.

Overall of course, the airframe itself is quite large with a massive radome and plentiful volume and space for embedded/conformal sensors.

The art itself takes cues from the J-20 prototypes in primer, as do the landing gear doors.

I assume that the DEW pod needs to be retractable since the structure as is is detrimental to preserving LO.

 

[Blitzo]

I assume that the DEW pod needs to be retractable since the structure as is is detrimental to preserving LO.

Perhaps, but perhaps the more obvious question will be whether a DEW pod is even going to be a standard feature on 6th generation aircraft.

 

[Gloire_bb]

This is how I would classify fighter generations according to their core traits:

1st gen - jet engine
2nd gen - supersonic speed
3rd gen - multirole capabilities enabled by sensors
4th gen - enhanced kinematics and maneuverability
5th gen - VLO
6th gen - AI pilot a.k.a "optionally manned"

Many of those aren't actually core traits: they are inherently fluid(which outright stands against them being that: core).

For example - we'll almost 100% see "optional manning" on most 2010s gen aircraft later in their life cycle. More than that - chance is high we'll see it on all proper 4th gen still in production and development (so much fuss over generations, when what is supposed to be gone is still in production, development, and even in planning).
I.e. "4th gen" Gripen E airframes are quite likely to see it later on, but I wouldn't hold a candle for "5th gen" f-22 to get it in its life cycle.

In the past, it was in many cases possible to skip generations over and over: Mirages did it essentially twice (mirage 2000, I remember you) - and then for some incomprehensible(sarcasm) reason went to develop...another 4th gen aircraft. It shouldn't have made any sense, should it?

There are certainly other traits, which actually do tell apart aircraft of different ages, and which can't be transmigrated into earlier airframes and designs.
There are such emerging traits for the 6th gen as well - but as of now, it's simply too early to tell what will exactly be different. That we can say for sure it will include a new generation of engines - because it always comes together with new gen of aircraft. Other things (tailless configuration, powerful heat sinks, and so on) are less determined - simply because there is still no aircraft.

Large ventral weapons bays, allowing carriage of large outsize weapons internally or allowing carriage of a large number of small/medium size weapons, complemented by side weapons bays dedicated for small/medium size weapons.

Outsized weapons won't fit inside by the very definition - or they wouldn't be outsized anymore. ;p
IMHO, bay size race is pointless and shouldn't happen, as the answer is simpler. "External carriers" simply won't go away.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Perhaps, but perhaps the more obvious question will be whether a DEW pod is even going to be a standard feature on 6th generation aircraft.

Right, especially given how nebulous the sixth generation designation is.

That said, the artist's original intention was to depict a laser weapon. He states so on the latest CGI image.

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[AssassinsMace]

Pictures from Weibo :

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Funny I just saw a thumbnail on YouTube that used these pics to promote Great Britain's Tempest 6th gen fighter but it doesn't look remotely to this artist rendering.

 

[Atomicfrog]

I wonder how mature some of the combined-cycle turbine/ramjet projects are.

Would like to see a near space fighter jet with air breathing rocket engine like the future sabre engine from Reaction engine limited...

 

[Pacific]

Right, especially given how nebulous the sixth generation designation is.

That said, the artist's original intention was to depict a laser weapon. He states so on the latest CGI image.

In my opinion, the "next generation" will feature something like DEW anti-missile weapons for sure. Only technology that changes the way aerial warfare is conducted will count as "next-gen", and having near immunity to enemy long-range missiles (at least the first few salvos, depending on how much power the aircraft can produces) will be a "game-changer".

Laser DEW weapons will only be effective at longer (ish) ranges, since DEW weapons will take time to burn the sensors, especially the radars behind the cones on enemy missiles. Additionally, laser weapons take up space, and have to align with the aerodynamics of the aircraft so their firing angles will be limited, likely to within a small frontal arc, making interception of missiles at closer ranges, especially from above, below, to the sides, and behind more problematic.

Anything else that doesn't change the nature of aerial warfare will be "retconned" to be 5.5 gen instead.

Alternatively, DEW weapons will be mounted on larger aircraft like Y-20, C919, C2, etc for more power and range, and "6th gen" will simply be drone aircraft, providing forward radar and missile screen for the "Command Aircraft", while the "Command Aircraft" will provide DEW anti-missile screen for the drones.

 

[Atomicfrog]

In my opinion, the "next generation" will feature something like DEW anti-missile weapons for sure. Only technology that changes the way aerial warfare is conducted will count as "next-gen", and having near immunity to enemy long-range missiles (at least the first few salvos, depending on how much power the aircraft can produces) will be a "game-changer".

Laser DEW weapons will only be effective at longer (ish) ranges, since DEW weapons will take time to burn the sensors, especially the radars behind the cones on enemy missiles. Additionally, laser weapons take up space, and have to align with the aerodynamics of the aircraft so their firing angles will be limited, likely to within a small frontal arc, making interception of missiles at closer ranges, especially from above, below, to the sides, and behind more problematic.

Anything else that doesn't change the nature of aerial warfare will be "retconned" to be 5.5 gen instead.

Alternatively, DEW weapons will be mounted on larger aircraft like Y-20, C919, C2, etc for more power and range, and "6th gen" will simply be drone aircraft, providing forward radar and missile screen for the "Command Aircraft", while the "Command Aircraft" will provide DEW anti-missile screen for the drones.

Will be interesting to watch the missile race to counter DEW anti-missile weapons if they are fielded. We will see some design with multiple homing submunitions a bit like big Thales Starstreak missiles to counter that and way stealthier missiles. Bigger weapon number capacity will become a big asset too in 6th gen fighter..