News on China's scientific and technological development.

TD739 · Sep 15, 2020

horse said:
Sorry, but that is not something to be concerned about.

This is SMIC chance to be a major world player in fabrication.

Right now SMIC is just a bit player in the industry.

Will full funding from Chinese sources, and orders from Chinese manufacturing firms, this is their chance to reach as high as they can.

SMIC is a business. You go to where the money is. The money here for SMIC is to ignore the Americans because they're offering nothing.

The money for SMIC is all in China.

What does America has to do with anything here? Nothing. Just sour grapes.

SMIC really got intimidated by sanction. It would affect it's stock price and ability to continuing using US equipments.

If SMIC doesn't care what US does it would not try to apply for a US license.

I bet as of today 9/15 the official day of Huawei latest sanction kicked in, SMIC stops 14nm Huawei production. It will wait until it got the license from US. If it doesn't get it , it would say to Huawei, Sorry I can't do it without US license.

s002wjh · Sep 15, 2020

horse said:
Sorry, but that is not something to be concerned about.

This is SMIC chance to be a major world player in fabrication.

Right now SMIC is just a bit player in the industry.

Will full funding from Chinese sources, and orders from Chinese manufacturing firms, this is their chance to reach as high as they can.

SMIC is a business. You go to where the money is. The money here for SMIC is to ignore the Americans because they're offering nothing.

The money for SMIC is all in China.

What does America has to do with anything here? Nothing. Just sour grapes.

not really, there is couple reason why SMIC is worried.
1. unlike Huawei which have multiple source of income, at least Huawei can survive. Most SMIC revenue come from Fabs, which heavily rely on US equipment.
2. If they get blacklist, that means they wont be able to procure equipment/materials from US/Japan/SK+whatever EDA tools. China domestic industry wont be able to catch up within many years in ALL these fields. So in the next X years SMIC is stuck at current technology, thats huge risk of uncertainty on whether they can get domestic EDA/material/equipment in X amount of years.
3. US could sanction other industry in China who work with SMIC, for example if Xiaomi/vivo etc etc is customer of SMIC, US can threaten these company as well for working with SMIC. Then it become alot risk for these company as well. The fact is almost all top tech company industry use US/Japan/SK products in their own products, and US can blacklist ANY of them. This is a tech war between countries, SMIC/Huawei just a small battles.

Aperture05 · Sep 15, 2020

TD739 said:
SMIC really got intimidated by sanction. It would affect it's stock price and ability to continuing using US equipments.

If SMIC doesn't care what US does it would not try to apply for a US license.

I bet as of today 9/15 the official day of Huawei latest sanction kicked in, SMIC stops 14nm Huawei production. It will wait until it got the license from US. If it doesn't get it , it would say to Huawei, Sorry I can't do it without US license.

This argument is incredibly short sighted. The longer SMIC manages to stay off the US's shitlist, the more it can progress.

Are you seriously accusing them of appeasing the US for its stock price?

SMIC very likely does not give two shits about its stock price, but it cares about its ability to provide competitive nodes.

free_6ix9ine · Sep 15, 2020

Aperture05 said:
This argument is incredibly short sighted. The longer SMIC manages to stay off the US's shitlist, the more it can progress.

Are you seriously accusing them of appeasing the US for its stock price?

SMIC very likely does not give two shits about its stock price, but it cares about its ability to provide competitive nodes.

SmIC getting sanctioned or not is less relevant than whether SMEE gets sanctioned. Who cares if SMIC can develop 7nm or 5nm. Its all super useless unless it's done on domestic equipment. China wants to take the shortcut of developing chips without developing the equipment. It's a strategy that will fail. If smic gets sanctioned they should continue with 14nm for Huawei.

TD739 · Sep 15, 2020

Aperture05 said:
This argument is incredibly short sighted. The longer SMIC manages to stay off the US's shitlist, the more it can progress.

Are you seriously accusing them of appeasing the US for its stock price?

SMIC very likely does not give two shits about its stock price, but it cares about its ability to provide competitive nodes.

The key to lock in Liang moon song long term is its stock package . So stock price is very important. His base yearly salary is only $250k. That's same for many engineers.

siegecrossbow · Sep 15, 2020

Man a lot of people on this forum trust Trump's words better than your average Trump fan. If his latest capitulations on Tiktok and the Canadian aluminum tariffs are any indication then 90% of his most recent threats are bluffs or negotiation tactics.

Do you guys remember when Trump threatened to:

1) Bar all CCP members and families from the U.S.
2) Ban Wechat
3) Ban cotton and tomatoes from Xinjiang
etc.

How many of those did he actually follow up on?

Aperture05 · Sep 15, 2020

free_6ix9ine said:
SmIC getting sanctioned or not is less relevant than whether SMEE gets sanctioned. Who cares if SMIC can develop 7nm or 5nm. Its all super useless unless it's done on domestic equipment. China wants to take the shortcut of developing chips without developing the equipment. It's a strategy that will fail. If smic gets sanctioned they should continue with 14nm for Huawei.

There is currently no fab in the world that utilises purely domestic technologies. The ability for SMIC to fabricate high performance nodes as of now is far more important than utilising purely domestic equipment. There are many fabless designers in China, but no truly competitive foundry-progress on nodes is more important to supply high performance SoC in the event that foreign chip designers are unable to supply important ICs to China. Equipment can be stockpiled, and eventually superseded by others (such as SMEE), but knowledge and technology cannot.

AssassinsMace · Sep 15, 2020

Trump's concern with Xinjiang issues only came up after those reports that he said he saw nothing wrong with concentration camps there. So of course he has to show the opposite to counter any criticism.

free_6ix9ine · Sep 15, 2020

Aperture05 said:
There is currently no fab in the world that utilises purely domestic technologies. The ability for SMIC to fabricate high performance nodes as of now is far more important than utilising purely domestic equipment. There are many fabless designers in China, but no truly competitive foundry-progress on nodes is more important to supply high performance SoC in the event that foreign chip designers are unable to supply important ICs to China. Equipment can be stockpiled, and eventually superseded by others (such as SMEE), but knowledge and technology cannot.

Makes sense. SMIC should stay off the list as long as possible. Stockpile equipment. Bide time.

horse · Sep 15, 2020

s002wjh said:
not really, there is couple reason why SMIC is worried.
1. unlike Huawei which have multiple source of income, at least Huawei can survive. Most SMIC revenue come from Fabs, which heavily rely on US equipment.
2. If they get blacklist, that means they wont be able to procure equipment/materials from US/Japan/SK+whatever EDA tools. China domestic industry wont be able to catch up within many years in ALL these fields. So in the next X years SMIC is stuck at current technology, thats huge risk of uncertainty on whether they can get domestic EDA/material/equipment in X amount of years.
3. US could sanction other industry in China who work with SMIC, for example if Xiaomi/vivo etc etc is customer of SMIC, US can threaten these company as well for working with SMIC. Then it become alot risk for these company as well. The fact is almost all top tech company industry use US/Japan/SK products in their own products, and US can blacklist ANY of them. This is a tech war between countries, SMIC/Huawei just a small battles.

I got no idea what you are saying.

You mean the US government really is the boss of SMIC and not SMIC management?

News on China's scientific and technological development.

TD739

Junior Member

s002wjh

Junior Member

Aperture05

New Member

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member

TD739

Junior Member

siegecrossbow

General

Aperture05

New Member

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member

horse

Major