News on China's scientific and technological development.

Orthan

Senior Member
cnn article about huawei.

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It seems that huawei will lose competitiveness using only mediatek chips, has already been hurt in overseas markets because it cant acess US tech, and will be even at an disadvantageous position at the home market because their competitors (like xiaomi) arent under the same sanctions (qualcomm is an american company).

My understanding of the American bans against Huawei and what Ren Zhengfei is going to do moving forward, is that Huawei will buy stuff from MediaTek who is "fabless" but they will contract that chip manufacturing out to TSMC who will be using ASML top of the line machines to fill that order to supply MediaTek who would then supply Huawei.

I doubt that TSMC will play along with that.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
cnn article about huawei.

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It seems that huawei will lose competitiveness using only mediatek chips, has already been hurt in overseas markets because it cant acess US tech, and will be even at an disadvantageous position at the home market because their competitors (like xiaomi) arent under the same sanctions (qualcomm is an american company).

I doubt that TSMC will play along with that.
They have been saying they will slowly strangle Huawei ever-since the beginning of this and every quarter, Huawei blows them away with the sales report. Huawei will not lose competitiveness in China because it has become a symbol of national pride and slight differences in performance will only be noticed by the most intensive dedicated phone gamers. Recently, Huawei has devoured the Chinese market due to nationalism (which ironically is why it ran out of chips so fast). Huawei still has time as SMIC is set to debut its 7nm process soon and Huawei itself is just getting into the foundry business. This is a beautiful evolution that could not have been without Trump.
 

horse

Major
Registered Member
It seems that huawei will lose competitiveness using only mediatek chips,
That's theoretical. Since this is business we are talking about, Hauwei is the number #1 selling cell phone brand in the world. Results count. Hope is just that, empty.

Huawei became the number #1 selling cell phone brand in the world, while under continuous attack from the United States government all this time. Ren Zhengfei is saying bring it on.

I doubt that TSMC will play along with that.
Why?

Is there a law against that?

There is no law against TSMC selling to MediaTek who in turns sells to Huawei.

(Note, if there was a law against that, it probably be impossible for the chip-police to police) :p
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
well some are true, but the fact is US was able to push TSMC/ARM stop working with Huawei, seem like TSMC still using some US tech. As long this is true, Chinese company can't rely TSMC/ASML etc etc for their chips.

Well we are talking different thing here Chip technology and Chip fabrication. US can impose embargo on Chip fabrication because most of the equipment to fabricate chip still have US patent or dominated by US manufacturer out of the legacy since semiconductor was first invented in the US
My post is to highlight the role of government in fostering technology and rebut the contention of gadgetcool that everything should be left to private initiative

China was behind because the short sightedness of the like of Huawei who rather buy chip(easier and cheaper) rather than go the extra miles to design and fabricate the chip themselves until it was too late. SMIC was going nowhere from it inception in 2000 until 2013 when Beijing took interest and funded to build the first 40nm FAB. See without Beijing help and solely rely on private initiative it does not go anywhere,They are wasting 13 years Without domestic FAB as incubator of technology there will be no CHIP equipment manufacturer. It is part of ecosystem.

To their credit Huawei did participate in consortium to research and design Chip process to build 14 nm in 2015
which now bearing fruit
On June 23, 2015,
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,
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Global Trading Pte. Ltd., IMEC International, and SMIC announced the formation
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of the SMIC Advanced Technology Research & Development (Shanghai) Corporation, an equity joint venture company. The joint venture company's focus was to be the R&D for the next generation CMOS logic technology and was designed to build China’s most advanced integrated circuit (IC) development R&D platform. SMIC Advanced Technology R&D (Shanghai) Corporation is majority owned by SMIC, while Huawei, IMEC, and Qualcomm are minority shareholders. The focus of the joint venture company is on developing 14 nm logic technology.
 
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horse

Major
Registered Member
This means circumventing the US restrictions against huawei, and i doubt that tsmc will risk angering the US government just to sell to huawei. They just dont need that.
You do realize that Huawei used to procure $11 billion USD worth of materials the last year from American companies before President Trump imposed his sanctions?

Huawei buys around $70 billion dollar worth of stuff per year. Are you really saying the US government is angry that Huawei buys so much stuff from various suppliers?
 
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horse

Major
Registered Member
Always chance for biden to win and remove sanctions
Does not matter really at this point for Huawei. American supplier credibility is shot.

Huawei phones become free of American parts in a few short months, so the United States government had to do the drastic action of outlawing the use of any American equipment to supply Huawei.

The Americans can only lose a game with these kind of rules, they cannot win. Huawei buys their stuff from MediaTek, or even Qualcomm, and that's it. Business goes on.

Then Huawei will try to turn the entire supply line for their business American free, which could be the case with every other cell phone manufacturer in China.

Biden probably getting rid of some of the the tariffs.

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gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
Huawei should transfer its Kirin technology to MediaTek. That would really be a good way to punish the US for sanctions by rewarding one of its competitors.
 

supercat

Major
Africa, with a fast growing population of 1.3 billion people, is a huge market for Huawei.
Huawei's deep roots put Africa beyond reach of US crackdown
Chinese telecom gear features in 5G networks in South Africa and Uganda

ISTANBUL -- As the U.S. lobbies for countries around the world to keep Huawei Technologies out of their telecommunications networks, the Chinese giant has established a seemingly irreversible foothold in Africa, a market of 1.3 billion people.

African presenters featured prominently in an online event held by Huawei in late July, including South African Communications and Digital Technologies Minister Stella Ndabeni-Abrahams, who stressed the growing importance of a digital shift amid the coronavirus pandemic.

"We have worked again with the industry to say all those that are big companies, like the Huawei, and everybody that is involved in the device manufacturing, they had to come together and say what interventions, what software solutions we can provide to the people of South Africa as the way of contributing towards COVID-19," Ndabeni-Abrahams said.

Washington has cracked down heavily on Chinese tech companies including Huawei. In its latest move Thursday, it barred businesses that use goods or services from five Chinese companies from bidding for federal contracts, citing security concerns. But its sanctions look unlikely to make much difference in a region where few companies do business with the U.S. government.

Safaricom, Kenya's largest wireless carrier, is among the companies considering employing Huawei gear in fifth-generation wireless infrastructure. In February, then-acting CEO Michael Joseph told Reuters that the company "will use Huawei in 5G."

"What will we do in terms of the American statements about not using Huawei? We don't have that situation in Africa," Joseph said.

South African wireless carrier Rain announced in July that it had launched the continent's first stand-alone 5G network, featuring Huawei equipment.

Roughly 70% of 4G base stations in Africa are made by Huawei, and pivoting away from the company in the transition to 5G is unrealistic, according to Arthur Goldstuck, head of South Africa-based research firm World Wide Worx. European countries have the option of turning to suppliers based in the region, particularly Nokia and Ericsson, but they are costlier than Huawei.

Other Chinese companies hit by the American regulations have made inroads in Africa as well. Huawei peer ZTE, in partnership with local carrier MTN, announced this January that they had launched 5G service on a trial basis in Uganda.

Surveillance cameras from Hikvision, which boasts advanced facial recognition technology, are widely used in countries including South Africa, Senegal and Kenya.

Chinese technology has been employed by African governments to spy on citizens. The Wall Street Journal reported last year that Huawei technicians helped the governments of Uganda and Zambia intercept communications of political opponents.

Chinese investment in Africa has given a boost to adoption of Chinese products in the region. A government data center in Cameroon completed in July was funded by the state-controlled Export-Import Bank of China and equipped with Huawei gear.

The stock of Chinese foreign direct investment in Africa reached $46 billion in 2018, data from the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development shows. China is the largest trading partner of many African countries, including South Africa, and is a major provider of infrastructure funding, giving Beijing avenues to expand its influence in the region.
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