News on China's scientific and technological development.

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Fair enough that there is national competition and actual espionage. Then there is plenty of glossing over US accountability for and benefits from consensual arrangements, double standards and “do what we say, not what we do”. “Whole-of-society threat” sounds a lot like the racist “yellow peril” concept of the past.

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It tells you the US has become so paranoid about the future, they don't know where to defend themselves except to attack everything Chinese and in this case all of Chinese society. They're attacking Confucius Centers too. Why? They're afraid of brainwashing. Now you know why it's so important for them to spread Western values. Guess whose closed society will hamper their future now? Yeah China has to open its society but they don't have to. Also today these intelligence and law enforcement chiefs are warning everyone not just the US government not to buy Huawei or ZTE because they can be used as espionage tools for the Chinese government. Again no specifics or cases because it's not about national security. Not afraid of iPhones made in China? It's all about preventing China from taking over international smartphone and telecom markets.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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The U.S. government's beef with Huawei isn't really about phones
One-liner quotes from intelligence agency officials aren't telling the whole story about the U.S. government's feud with Huawei.

In case you missed it this week, the heads of the FBI, NSA, CIA, and others recommended that we (meaning you and me and all consumers in the U.S.)
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Huawei and ZTE. None of the speakers had any explicit reasons why we should heed their advice, but FBI head Christopher Wray offered this non-answer when pressed for one.

We're deeply concerned about the risks of allowing any company or entity that is beholden to foreign governments that don't share our values to gain positions of power inside our telecommunications networks. That provides the capacity to exert pressure or control over our telecommunications infrastructure. It provides the capacity to maliciously modify or steal information. And it provides the capacity to conduct undetected espionage.

While this doesn't address why consumers should stop buying phones from any company, it does offer the real reasons the U.S. is worried about Huawei in particular.

Number 3 tries harder

Huawei is the third largest smartphone manufacturer in the world behind
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and
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. It is also the ninth largest technology company (by revenue) worldwide with 180,000 employees and an average annual revenue of $78.8 billion. In other words, Huawei is as "big" a company as Microsoft. That's good news for Huawei, and usually seeing a company move up the ladder to challenge the market leaders is good for consumers, too. Officially, Huawei is a subsidiary of
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in Shenzhen, China and that's where the real issues the U.S. has with Huawei start.

Huawei is big and China's government is big and together they scare U.S. officials.

Unofficially, everyone thinks the Chinese government is in control of Huawei. While I'm not an expert on foreign affairs or the history of the Chinese Communist Party, I am smart enough to know that the Chinese state surely does have a financial interest in one of the biggest companies inside its border. The chance that the state has a controlling interest in Huawei doesn't surprise me, either. There has been no evidence offered, and not surprisingly there isn't much on the public record to clear things up, so we have to assume that it could be true. Intelligence agencies, as well as economic agencies and trade officials, have a problem with this. A big problem for several key reasons.

Some backdoors are more important than others
I'm also not an intelligence official, but that does give me the freedom to be frank about why the U.S. might be concerned with Huawei gaining a significant foothold in the States. Economically, it means money is going back to China, and right now our government has a love-hate relationship with the world's fastest-growing economy. It (meaning the U.S. government) does not want to see a Chinese company gaining any steam using American dollars and especially one that has strong Chinese government ties. That's how global politics work — you want to be at the top and be strong enough on all fronts to stay there forever.

A backdoor in your phone is bad but a backdoor on a network switch on a company like Sprint's network is a lot worse.

From an information technology and security standpoint, the worries of Huawei being an arm of the Chinese state brings some serious concern. Not because Huawei makes phones that are worth buying and has designed a model Americans will love, but because Huawei also makes enterprise-grade network hardware that works well and is cheap. That's the kind of stuff an American business will want to buy when the bottom line matters more than anything else, and that describes almost every American business. Having a company you suspect of being part of a semi-hostile government building the equipment the country's network infrastructure is built upon is terrifying to every U.S. spy agency.

All our important and sensitive information travels across the internet infrastructure. So does sensitive and important information from the NSA, or CIA, or FBI. Those agencies have to communicate just like we do. Certain government networks are hardened and completely isolated from any other network, but this information still has to pass hands and can touch the public infrastructure from time to time. It's surely heavily encrypted on multiple layers, but it's still not something the U.S. wants China to have. If Huawei has built methods for China to intercept any of this information, a potentially critical situation is born.

The NSA and the rest of the three-letter intelligence agencies aren't worried that Huawei is spying on us via a backdoor in a phone. They are worried that Huawei is spying on themthrough equipment that powers the internet.

Having a company you suspect of being part of a semi-hostile government building the equipment the country's network infrastructure is built upon is terrifying to every U.S. spy agency.

And they should be. That is, after all, one of their primary objectives. The controversial actions these agencies have taken make headlines, but day-to-day, week after week, employees at the NSA or CIA are there to do their duty to keep us safe. We might not agree with their idea of "safe", or how they go about their duties, but until they are changed things are what they are. And that means there is always going to be information that's classified and secret, someone will need to send that sort of information to someone else, and it may come in contact with equipment made by Huawei. If that equipment is compromised by China, there is a valid concern there.

Back to the phones. Having everyone in the U.S. rush out and buy a
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, making Huawei richer (and putting a backdoor in every American's hands according to U.S. spooks and their bosses), isn't going to make trade officials happy. Having AT&T and Sprint and Level 3 and RCN and every other company that provides the U.S. internet infrastructure use potentially compromised equipment from a country that is in all but name an enemy of the state
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.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
So what the hell should we do?

Spies gonna spy and corporations gonna corporate. There's not much a normal person who just wants to get their money's worth when they buy a new phone can do about that. Continue to vote, both at the ballot box and with your wallet, to try and shape the country the way you think it should be. All this aside, we can and should be concerned that we're making the right decision when we buy a phone. Nobody wants a phone that spies on them, and nobody deserves to get stuck with one.

I'll come out and say it plainly: I do not think the Chinese government, or any other entity, has placed a backdoor in any Huawei phone that would enable it to steal your data.

Huawei clearly responded to this latest accusation saying their phones and networking equipment is sold worldwide and "poses no greater cybersecurity risk than any ICT vendor" and there is no reason to doubt its word when it comes to its phones. In fact, there is some evidence that supports Huawei here. There are "rules" in place when a foreign country wants to sell electronic or connected products inside the U.S. and Great Britain. The public isn't privy to the exact details, but there is a rigorous inspection when a device is able to transmit encrypted data to make sure these rules are followed. Huawei has apparently been found to be following them as you can buy their products both here in the states and in Great Britain.

Further (but even more circumstantial) evidence is that plenty of people already have a Huawei phone and some of those people are
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what their phones are sending and where it is going. So far, we've heard nothing to make me think Huawei is sending private data back to China or is building a bot-net to terrorize Americans over the internet. If Huawei was doing anything fishy with our data, Reddit would know and Reddit would be on fire.

I'm not saying you should take my word over that of FBI Director Christopher Wray. I take my word over his, but can't ask you to do the same. But I can ask you to consider one thing: we have been offered zero proof that buying a Huawei phone is a bad idea. Not a lick. Like you, I read multiple articles and news stories about the Senate Intelligence Committee testimony and I think ZDNet's
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says it the best.
As for myself, I will continue to use the Huawei Mate 10 Pro until there is evidence that shows I should be concerned.

But you can't let me make that decision for you. Make sure you're informed and choose wisely. Meanwhile, the
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.

And how does the US think China is doing what they accuse? Because they're doing it themselves to everyone else. The reason why they don't have to give evidence of their charges? It's because they're appealing to people's vanity that they're important enough to be spied upon.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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Raise the alarm bells over something that will probably never turn out as horrifying as their worst Hollywood nightmares. The people who control technology make all the money from the technology. That's what it comes down to. Do a search on Google or Yahoo and they begin to know your tastes and give a catered service based on what you click on and search. I do a search and read articles on China all the time and my home page becomes filled with China news on its own and they happened to be something like 90% negative news on China. That isn't by design? Hence why it's so important to have their internet companies have access to China. They were already doing what Russia is accused of doing on Facebook. China can't be responsible with AI so the Chinese shouldn't have their own meaning China has to have their AI in control.

Indians believe they're the kings of programming because of all the outsourcing of IT going to India. Yeah for the native English speaking world only. Do they reign in China? No, because the Chinese don't speak English as their first and official language. Indian programming skills are irrelevant in China. AI is going to be the same way. AI will serve cultural interests just like there are apps that serve the Western culture and there will apps that serve Chinese culture and they can't be exchange.

And as usual you see the typical religious themes being imposed. There can be only one God. His way is the only way. And God created man in his image. And don't be misdirected that AI is God and will be like Skynet. God is the creator of AI. They're not afraid of their AI. They're afraid of Chinese AI. As usual it's China that is not responsible enough with this technology. Only they can be responsible with this technology.

They're worried about facial recognition mixed in with AI. Think about the iPhone X and how it's having problems with its facial recognition. Jokingly it's been accuse that the iPhone X is racist because when it comes to non-white faces, it has a hard time distinguishing one face from another and the iPhone can easily be unlocked by a different person other than the owner. They say this is one of the reasons why the iPhone X isn't selling well in China. Guess what? China has facial recognition commercially used in public now and they don't seem to have this problem where their facial recognition program can't tell Chinese faces apart. You can enter your Chinese all look alike joke now but what it really says is facial recognition tech in the US is far behind China's. The only way they can make money is by knocking out the competition by scaring people and making them paranoid over human rights abusing Chinese technology.
 

supercat

Major
I don't how good the methodology for comparing tech industry is. But according to the article, China will reach parity with the U.S. in 10-15 years.

How does Chinese tech stack up against American tech?

AMERICANS, and friends of America, often reassure themselves about its relative decline in the following way. Even if the roads, airports and schools continue to slide, it will retain its lead in the most sophisticated fields for decades. They include defence, elite universities, and, in the business world, technology. Uncle Sam may have ceded the top spot to China in exports in 2007, and manufacturing in 2011, and be on track to lose its lead in absolute GDP by about 2030. But Silicon Valley, the argument goes, is still where the best ideas, smartest money and hungriest entrepreneurs combine with a bang nowhere else can match.

Or is it? American attitudes towards Chinese tech have passed through several stages of denial in the past 20 years. First it was an irrelevance, then Chinese firms were sometimes seen as copycats or as industrial spies, and more recently China has been viewed as a tech Galapagos, where unique species grow that would never make it beyond its shores. Now a fourth stage has begun, marked by fear that China is reaching parity. American tech’s age of “imperial arrogance” is ending, says one Silicon Valley figure.

China’s tech leaders love visiting California, and invest there, but are no longer awed by it. By market value the Middle Kingdom’s giants, Alibaba and Tencent, are in the same league as Alphabet and Facebook. New stars may float their shares in 2018-19, including Didi Chuxing (taxi rides), Ant Financial (payments) and Lufax (wealth management). China’s e-commerce sales are double America’s and the Chinese send 11 times more money by mobile phones than Americans, who still scribble cheques.

The venture-capital (VC) industry is booming. American visitors return from Beijing, Hangzhou and Shenzhen blown away by the entrepreneurial work ethic. Last year the government decreed that China would lead globally in artificial intelligence (AI) by 2030. The plan covers a startlingly vast range of activities, including developing smart cities and autonomous cars and setting global tech standards. Like Japanese industry in the 1960s, private Chinese firms take this “administrative guidance” seriously.

Being a global tech hegemon has been lucrative for America. Tech firms support 7m jobs at home that pay twice the average wage. Other industries benefit by using technology more actively and becoming more productive: American non-tech firms are 50% more “digitised” than European ones, says McKinsey, a consulting firm. America sets many standards, for example on the design of USB ports, or rules for content online, that the world follows. And the $180bn of foreign profits that American tech firms mint annually is a boon several times greater than the benefit of having the world’s reserve currency.

A loss of these spoils would be costly and demoralising. Is it likely? Schumpeter has compiled ten measures of tech supremacy. The approach owes much to Kai-Fu Lee of Sinovation Ventures, a Chinese VC firm. It uses figures from AllianceBernstein, Bloomberg, CB Insights, Goldman Sachs and McKinsey and includes 3,000 listed, global tech firms, 226 “unicorns”, or unlisted firms worth over $1bn, plus Huawei, a Chinese hardware giant.

The overall conclusion is that China is still behind. Using the median of the yardsticks, its tech industry is 42% as powerful as America’s. But it is catching up fast. In 2012 the figure was just 15%.

Start with Chinese tech’s weak spots. Its total market value is only 32% of the figure for America’s industry. While there are two huge companies and lots of small ones, there are relatively few firms worth between $50bn and $200bn. China is puny in semiconductors and business-facing software. Tech products do not yet permeate the industrial economy: Chinese non-tech firms are relatively primitive and only 26% as digitised as American ones.

As for investment, Chinese tech’s absolute budget is only 30% as big as that of American tech. And it is still small abroad, with foreign sales of 18% of the total that American firms make. Apple rakes in more abroad in three days than Tencent does in a year.

The gap gets much smaller, however, when you look at the most dynamic parts of the tech industry. In the area of e-commerce and the internet, Chinese firms are collectively 53% as big as America’s, measured by market value. China’s unicorns, a proxy for the next generation of giants, are in total worth 69% of America’s, and its level of VC activity is 85% as big as America’s based on money spent since 2016. There is now a rich ecosystem of VC firms buttressed by Alibaba and Tencent, who seed roughly a quarter of VC deals, and by government-backed funds-of-funds.

China is improving at “breakthrough” innovations. Take AI. China’s population of AI experts is only 6% of the size of America’s (if you include anyone of Chinese ethnicity this rises to 16%) and the best minds still work in the United States, for example at Alphabet. But now the number of cited AI papers by Chinese scientists is already at 89% of the American level. China has piles of data and notable companies in AI specialisms, for example Face++ in facial recognition and iFlytek in speech.

The techtonic plates shift

At the present pace China’s tech industry will be at parity with America’s in 10-15 years. This will boost the country’s productivity and create tech jobs. But the real prize is making far more profits overseas and setting global standards. Here the state’s active role may make some countries nervous about relying on Chinese tech firms. One scenario is that national-security worries mean China’s and America’s tech markets end up being largely closed to each other, leaving everywhere else as a fiercely contested space. This is how the telecoms-equipment industry works, with Huawei imperious around the world but stymied in America.

For Silicon Valley, it is time to get paranoid. Viewed from China, many of its big firms have become comfy monopolists. In the old days all American tech executives had to do to see the world’s cutting edge was to walk out the door. Now they must fly to China, too. Let’s hope the airports still work.

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Not even in the most vaunted tech sector like Semiconductor is Intel leading read this article by Martian2

The two largest semiconductor logic-chip manufacturing companies in the world are Intel and TSMC.

Logic chips are the most technologically-challenging to fabricate and sophisticated in design.

Samsung is dominant in the simpler memory chips, but has only a small presence in logic chips.

Taiwan's TSMC will begin mass manufacture of 7nm logic chips for Apple's A12 Processor in the second quarter of 2018.

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"Currently TSMC has already obtained exclusive production orders for Apple's new generation mobile chips A series, which will drive TSMC's production of 7nm. TSMC first plans to commence mass production of 7nm in the second quarter of [2018]...."

Intel says its 10nm technology is almost ready.

Thus, we will compare TSMC's 7nm to Intel's 10nm technology.

In an apples-to-apples comparison, where both companies' technologies are used to produce the same product (in this case SRAM), TSMC's density is 14.7% higher than Intel's best upcoming technology.

A TSMC 7nm six-transistor SRAM bit cell measures 0.0272 square micrometers.
An Intel 10nm six-transistor SRAM bit cell measures 0.0312 square micrometers.

"According to an EE Times article, the Intel engineer who presented the details of the company's 10-nanometer SRAM bit cells at the ISSCC admitted that Intel's technology was 'within 15 percent of the smallest reported 7-nm cell.'" (See citation below)
----------

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K9mWP2z.jpg
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Samsung is dominant in the simpler memory chips, but has only a small presence in logic chips.

/QUOTE]

Beg to differ but all those ARM processors that go into all those Samsung handsets and TVs are logic chips and they add up to lots of millions!
 

supercat

Major
I'm not sure if this is correct - but does this imply that Chinese consumers are less burdened with credit card debt?

China pulls further ahead of US in mobile payments with record US$12.8 trillion in transactions
China’s cities are ‘closest to cashless consumer economies’ as mobile payments surged to a record amount in the 10 months to October last year.

Mobile payment transactions in China reached a record 81 trillion yuan (US$12.8 trillion) from January to October last year, driven by the vast number of consumers across the country who have looked beyond credit cards to more convenient, cashless systems.

The 10-month total surpassed the 58.8 trillion yuan in mobile payment transactions on the mainland during the whole of 2016, according to the latest official figures from the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology reported earlier by Xinhua News Agency.

China’s latest tally dwarfed the estimated US$49.3 billion in total mobile payment transactions in the United States last year, according to data from eMarketer.

China’s mobile payments boom has been powered by the fast adoption of online retail, financial and on-demand services, such as ride-sharing activities, in the world’s largest internet and smartphone market.

Mobile payments are used for a wide range of transactions, from paying for smartphone game upgrades and ordering takeaway food online to purchasing movie tickets and sending electronic hongbao – red packets with cash as gifts.

Popular mobile payment apps, such as WeChat Pay and Alipay, have enabled consumers, including those in rural areas, to go straight from cash to smartphone, leapfrogging the use of credit cards and cheques.

That would be akin to how India had showed leaps and bounds in mobile internet adoption, and largely dispensed with further building up its fixed-line broadband infrastructure.

“China is recognised as the most advanced market for mobile payments in the world, thanks to WeChat and Alipay,” said Paul Haswell, a senior partner at international law firm Pinsent Masons.

“Essentially, use of credit and debit cards in China is relatively cumbersome compared to making WeChat payments. As such, many Chinese cities are now the closest we have to cashless consumer economies.”

WeChat Pay, which is operated by Tencent Holdings, and Alipay, the online payments platform of Alibaba Group Holding affiliate Ant Financial Services, accounted for 93 per cent of China’s mobile payments market, according to data from research firm Analysys International. New York-listed Alibaba owns the South China Morning Post.

Both WeChat Pay and Alipay have helped popularise paying for purchases made at the point of sale (POS) by tapping, swiping or checking in with a smartphone, using the near-field communications feature built in the handset or the machine-readable optical label known as QR code.

The number of transactions made through non-banking mobile apps from 2013 to 2016 increased from 3.8 billion to more than 97 billion, according to data from the Payment and Clearing Association of China.

Research firm eMarketer recently estimated that more than 61 per cent of global mobile payment users this year will be located in China.

“By 2021, 79.3 per cent of smartphone users in China will be tapping, scanning and swiping at the POS,” said eMarketer forecasting analyst Shelleen Shum. “By comparison, the US will have 23 per cent of smartphone users doing so, and in Germany it will be 15 per cent.”

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Doctors In China Lead Race To Treat Cancer By Editing Genes
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Shaorong Deng gets an experimental treatment for cancer of the esophagus that uses his own immune system cells. They have been genetically modified with the gene-editing technique known as CRISPR.

Yuhan Xu/NPR
Shaorong Deng is sitting up in bed at the Hangzhou Cancer Hospital waiting for his doctor. Thin and frail, the 53-year-old construction worker's coat drapes around his shoulders to protect against the chilly air.

Deng has advanced
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, a
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in China. He went through radiation and chemotherapy, but the cancer kept spreading.

Now he's back at the hospital to get an experimental treatment. It involves using cells from his own immune system, known as T cells, after they have been taken out of his body and genetically altered in a lab by the gene-editing tool called
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.

"I consider myself very lucky," Deng says through an interpreter as a nurse finishes taking his blood pressure.

Just then, the door swings open, and the nurse rushes back in. She's cradling a clear plastic pouch filled with yellowish fluid. She hangs the pouch above Deng's bed, attaches one end of an intravenous tube to the bottom, and slides a long needle at the other end into Deng's arm.

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in Hangzhou, a little over 100 miles southwest of Shanghai. "Now it begins — getting the immune cell therapy."

Deng stares at the IV as millions of genetically modified immune system cells slowly drip into his body. The infusion will take at least an hour.

"I can only hope it will completely — completely — get rid of the cancer," Deng says.

Deng is participating in what Wu says is the most advanced study in China testing CRISPR in sick people. But at least eight other Chinese studies of CRISPR for various forms of cancer are listed on a U.S. government
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that serves as a clearinghouse for biomedical research worldwide. The list includes studies of CRISPR as a treatment for cancers of the lung, bladder, cervix and prostate.

In contrast, only one CRISPR cancer study has been approved in the United States, and it's only just now starting to look for the first patient to treat.

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The Hangzhou Cancer Hospital in Hangzhou, China, is forging ahead with CRISPR treatment for cancer.

Rob Stein/NPR
"China is starting to pull ahead of other parts of the world — maybe for the time — in regards to biomedicine," says
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, an anthropologist at the
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in Singapore who studies Chinese bioscience. "They've been really investing heavily in it over the last couple of decades and it's starting to pay off in a big way."

The treatment Wu is testing involves taking a sample of blood from each patient. A lab at a biotech company two hours away by bullet train extracts T cells from the blood. Scientists then use CRISPR to knock out a gene in the T cells known as
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. This engineering feat modifies the T cells so that they zero in on and attack the cancer cells, once they're infused back into each patient.

Deng was returning to the hospital to receive his second infusion of gene-edited T cells. When he first arrived at the hospital about a month ago, he was so weak he needed a wheelchair. But Deng says he started feeling better soon after his first infusion.

"I feel very stable," Deng says. "I was weak in the limbs before and now I am not weak anymore."

It's still too early to draw firm conclusions about how effective the treatment will be or what the full extent of side effects from it. Deng is one of just 21 patients with advanced, incurable cancer of the esophagus that Wu has treated so far with CRISPR-edited T cells.

But Wu says about 40 percent of the patients appear to have responded. One patient is still alive almost a year later.

There's no randomized comparison group in this study. But usually, such patients would have no hope, Wu says. "If they have not received this treatment they will die — most of them will die in three to six months," he says.

Wu says he's writing up the results for a scientific publication, but these results have not yet been peer-reviewed or published.

So far, Wu says the only side effects have been mostly minor — an occasional fever or rash. Nine patients in the study have died, but Wu says that was from their cancer, not the treatment. One patient discontinued treatment because of a high fever. The rest appear to be stable or in "partial remission," Wu says. They are undergoing monthly treatments.

"As a cancer doctor, you see many deaths," Wu says. "So it's good to be part of this."

"China sees biomedicine as one way it can compete with the West and show off its technological prowess and scientific chops in the 21st century," Stevens says. "It's also something that's going to be critical for keeping China's population healthy in the 21st century."

Less skeptical about science

In general, medical research in China isn't as stringently regulated as in the West, Stevens says. "It begins at a different starting point," he says.

In the West, there is a history of awareness about the dangers of medical experimentation run wild, he says, going back to the Nazi era and also the notorious
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at Tuskegee University in Alabama, where doctors withheld treatment from black men for decades.

"Rather than having the starting point being: 'This could be dangerous or this could be risky for people and we need to take that concern uppermost,' " Stevens says. "They start with the premise: 'This is going to be beneficial for China.' "

Wu says
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was allowed to begin after being approved by a single nine-member hospital committee in just two months. He says the committee included a lawyer, a bioethicist, nurses, doctors, a journalist, a representative of cancer patients and a representative of the public.

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"If they have not received this treatment they will die — most of them will die in three to six months," says Dr. Shixiu Wu.
 
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