News on China's scientific and technological development.

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech
By PAUL MOZURAUG. 2, 2016

HONG KONG — Snapchat and Kik, the messaging services, use bar codes that look like drunken checkerboards to connect people and share information with a snap of their smartphone cameras. Facebook is working on adding the ability to hail rides and make payments
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. Facebook and Twitter have begun live-streaming video.


All of these developments have something in common: The technology was first popularized in China.

WeChat and Alipay, two Chinese apps, have long used the bar-codelike symbols — called QR codes — to let people pay for purchases and transfer money. Both let users hail a taxi or order a pizza without switching to another app. The video-streaming service
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has for years
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of young Chinese people posing, chatting and singing in front of video cameras at home.


Silicon Valley has long been the world’s tech capital: It birthed social networking and iPhones and spread those tech products across the globe. The rap on China has been that it always followed in the Valley’s footsteps as government censorship abetted the rise of local versions of Google, YouTube and Twitter.


But China’s tech industry — particularly its mobile businesses — has in some ways pulled ahead of the United States. Some Western tech companies, even the behemoths, are turning to Chinese firms for ideas.


“We just see China as further ahead,” said Ted Livingston, the founder of Kik, which is headquartered in Waterloo, Ontario.


The shift suggests that China could have a greater say in the global tech industry’s direction. Already in China, more people use their mobile devices to pay their bills, order services, watch videos and find dates than anywhere else in the world. Mobile payments in the country last year surpassed those in the United States. By some estimates, loans from a new breed of informal online banks called peer-to-peer lenders did too.


China’s largest internet companies are the only ones in the world that rival America’s in scale.
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after a protracted competition shows that at least domestically, Chinese players can take on the most sophisticated and largest start-ups coming out of America.


The future of online payments and engagements can be found at Liu Zheng’s noodle shop in central Beijing. Liu Xiu’e, 60, and her neighbor, Zhang Lixin, 55, read about the noodle shop on WeChat. Then they ordered and paid for their lunches and took and posted selfies of themselves outside the restaurant, all using the same app.


Liu Zheng, who is not related to Liu Xiu’e, said the automated ordering and payments meant he could cut down on wages for waiters. “In the future, we will only need one waiter to help in the restaurant and one to help with seating,” Mr. Liu said.


Industry leaders point to a number of areas where China jumped first. Before the online dating app Tinder, people in China used an app called Momo to flirt with nearby singles. Before the Amazon chief executive
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to deliver products, Chinese media reported that a local delivery company, S.F. Express, was experimenting with the idea. WeChat offered speedier in-app news articles long before Facebook, developed a walkie-talkie function before WhatsApp, and made major use of QR codes well before Snapchat.


Before Venmo became the app for millennials to transfer money in the United States, both young and old in China were investing, reimbursing each other, paying bills,and buying products from stores with smartphone-based digital wallets.


“Quite frankly, the trope that China copies the U.S. hasn’t been true for years, and in mobile it’s the opposite: The U.S. often copies China,” said Ben Thompson, the founder of the tech research firm Stratechery. “For the Facebook Messenger app, for example, the best way to understand their road map is to look at WeChat.”


A Facebook spokesman declined to comment. Tencent did not respond to requests for comment.

Executives from companies like Facebook and smaller rivals like Kik are trying to replicate what has emerged in China: dominant online platforms where users will spend much of their time. Much of that effort is focused on chat.

“The cool thing about chat is it becomes an operating system for your daily life,” Mr. Livingston said. “Going up to a vending machine, ordering food, getting a cab: Chat can power those interactions, and that’s what we’re seeing with WeChat.”


China still lags in important areas. Its most powerful, high-end servers and supercomputers often rely in part on American technology. Virtual-reality start-ups trail foreign counterparts, and Google has a jump on Baidu in
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. Many of China’s products also lack the polish of their American counterparts.


The biggest advantage for China’s tech industry, according to many analysts, is that it was able to fill a vacuum after the country essentially created much of its economy from scratch following the end of the Cultural Revolution, in 1976. Unlike in the United States, where banks and retailers already have strong holds on customers, China’s state-run lenders are inefficient, and retailers never expanded broadly enough to serve a fast-growing middle class.


Many Chinese also never bought a personal computer, meaning smartphones are the primary — and often first — computing device for the more than 600 million who have them in China.


“The U.S. was first to credit cards, and everyone there has a personal computer. But China, where everyone is on their phones all the time, is now ahead in mobile commerce and mobile payments by virtue of leapfrogging the PC and credit cards,” Mr. Thompson said.


Chinese companies also approach the internet in a different way. In the United States, tech firms emphasize simplicity in their apps. But in China, its three major internet companies — Alibaba, Baidu and the WeChat parent Tencent — compete to create a single app with as many functions as they can stuff into it.


On Alibaba’s Taobao shopping app, people can also buy groceries, buy credits for online games, scan coupons and find deals at stores nearby. Baidu’s mapping app lets users order an Uber, reserve a restaurant or hotel, order in food, buy movie tickets and find just about any type of store nearby.


Tencent has opened up WeChat to other companies, allowing them to create apps within WeChat. Ebaoyang — a start-up that enables people to order oil changes for their cars directly on smartphones — was at first almost totally reliant on WeChat to attract business. Gao Feng, one of Ebaoyang’s founders, said the company still relied on the app for 50 percent of its payments and 20 percent of new customers.

“We started from WeChat. So it was our main, original source for getting customers,” he said.

Between fees for its services and money it makes through online games, WeChat manages to generate $7 in revenue per user each year, according to Nomura. The app has roughly 700 million users, more than the total number of smartphone users in China, in part because some users are outside the country and in part because people have multiple accounts.

Much of that comes not from ads, as it might in the United States, but from spending on games, services and goods sold on the app. Those models may not translate from one market to the other, but the two can still borrow from each other, said Carmen Chang, a partner at the venture capital firm New Enterprise Associates.


“China was able to develop a lot of innovative business models, which arose in a different kind of economy,” said Ms. Chang, who spends time in both China and in Menlo Park, Calif. “Whether or not we admit it here in Silicon Valley, it’s had an impact on us and our thinking.”
 

Franklin

Captain
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China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech
By PAUL MOZURAUG. 2, 2016

HONG KONG — Snapchat and Kik, the messaging services, use bar codes that look like drunken checkerboards to connect people and share information with a snap of their smartphone cameras. Facebook is working on adding the ability to hail rides and make payments
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Facebook and Twitter have begun live-streaming video.


All of these developments have something in common: The technology was first popularized in China.

WeChat and Alipay, two Chinese apps, have long used the bar-codelike symbols — called QR codes — to let people pay for purchases and transfer money. Both let users hail a taxi or order a pizza without switching to another app. The video-streaming service
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
has for years
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
of young Chinese people posing, chatting and singing in front of video cameras at home.


Silicon Valley has long been the world’s tech capital: It birthed social networking and iPhones and spread those tech products across the globe. The rap on China has been that it always followed in the Valley’s footsteps as government censorship abetted the rise of local versions of Google, YouTube and Twitter.


But China’s tech industry — particularly its mobile businesses — has in some ways pulled ahead of the United States. Some Western tech companies, even the behemoths, are turning to Chinese firms for ideas.


“We just see China as further ahead,” said Ted Livingston, the founder of Kik, which is headquartered in Waterloo, Ontario.


The shift suggests that China could have a greater say in the global tech industry’s direction. Already in China, more people use their mobile devices to pay their bills, order services, watch videos and find dates than anywhere else in the world. Mobile payments in the country last year surpassed those in the United States. By some estimates, loans from a new breed of informal online banks called peer-to-peer lenders did too.


China’s largest internet companies are the only ones in the world that rival America’s in scale.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
after a protracted competition shows that at least domestically, Chinese players can take on the most sophisticated and largest start-ups coming out of America.


The future of online payments and engagements can be found at Liu Zheng’s noodle shop in central Beijing. Liu Xiu’e, 60, and her neighbor, Zhang Lixin, 55, read about the noodle shop on WeChat. Then they ordered and paid for their lunches and took and posted selfies of themselves outside the restaurant, all using the same app.


Liu Zheng, who is not related to Liu Xiu’e, said the automated ordering and payments meant he could cut down on wages for waiters. “In the future, we will only need one waiter to help in the restaurant and one to help with seating,” Mr. Liu said.


Industry leaders point to a number of areas where China jumped first. Before the online dating app Tinder, people in China used an app called Momo to flirt with nearby singles. Before the Amazon chief executive
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to deliver products, Chinese media reported that a local delivery company, S.F. Express, was experimenting with the idea. WeChat offered speedier in-app news articles long before Facebook, developed a walkie-talkie function before WhatsApp, and made major use of QR codes well before Snapchat.


Before Venmo became the app for millennials to transfer money in the United States, both young and old in China were investing, reimbursing each other, paying bills,and buying products from stores with smartphone-based digital wallets.


“Quite frankly, the trope that China copies the U.S. hasn’t been true for years, and in mobile it’s the opposite: The U.S. often copies China,” said Ben Thompson, the founder of the tech research firm Stratechery. “For the Facebook Messenger app, for example, the best way to understand their road map is to look at WeChat.”


A Facebook spokesman declined to comment. Tencent did not respond to requests for comment.

Executives from companies like Facebook and smaller rivals like Kik are trying to replicate what has emerged in China: dominant online platforms where users will spend much of their time. Much of that effort is focused on chat.

“The cool thing about chat is it becomes an operating system for your daily life,” Mr. Livingston said. “Going up to a vending machine, ordering food, getting a cab: Chat can power those interactions, and that’s what we’re seeing with WeChat.”


China still lags in important areas. Its most powerful, high-end servers and supercomputers often rely in part on American technology. Virtual-reality start-ups trail foreign counterparts, and Google has a jump on Baidu in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Many of China’s products also lack the polish of their American counterparts.


The biggest advantage for China’s tech industry, according to many analysts, is that it was able to fill a vacuum after the country essentially created much of its economy from scratch following the end of the Cultural Revolution, in 1976. Unlike in the United States, where banks and retailers already have strong holds on customers, China’s state-run lenders are inefficient, and retailers never expanded broadly enough to serve a fast-growing middle class.


Many Chinese also never bought a personal computer, meaning smartphones are the primary — and often first — computing device for the more than 600 million who have them in China.


“The U.S. was first to credit cards, and everyone there has a personal computer. But China, where everyone is on their phones all the time, is now ahead in mobile commerce and mobile payments by virtue of leapfrogging the PC and credit cards,” Mr. Thompson said.


Chinese companies also approach the internet in a different way. In the United States, tech firms emphasize simplicity in their apps. But in China, its three major internet companies — Alibaba, Baidu and the WeChat parent Tencent — compete to create a single app with as many functions as they can stuff into it.


On Alibaba’s Taobao shopping app, people can also buy groceries, buy credits for online games, scan coupons and find deals at stores nearby. Baidu’s mapping app lets users order an Uber, reserve a restaurant or hotel, order in food, buy movie tickets and find just about any type of store nearby.


Tencent has opened up WeChat to other companies, allowing them to create apps within WeChat. Ebaoyang — a start-up that enables people to order oil changes for their cars directly on smartphones — was at first almost totally reliant on WeChat to attract business. Gao Feng, one of Ebaoyang’s founders, said the company still relied on the app for 50 percent of its payments and 20 percent of new customers.

“We started from WeChat. So it was our main, original source for getting customers,” he said.

Between fees for its services and money it makes through online games, WeChat manages to generate $7 in revenue per user each year, according to Nomura. The app has roughly 700 million users, more than the total number of smartphone users in China, in part because some users are outside the country and in part because people have multiple accounts.

Much of that comes not from ads, as it might in the United States, but from spending on games, services and goods sold on the app. Those models may not translate from one market to the other, but the two can still borrow from each other, said Carmen Chang, a partner at the venture capital firm New Enterprise Associates.


“China was able to develop a lot of innovative business models, which arose in a different kind of economy,” said Ms. Chang, who spends time in both China and in Menlo Park, Calif. “Whether or not we admit it here in Silicon Valley, it’s had an impact on us and our thinking.”
The question is why is China not able to export these things ? Why is WeChat not replacing Twitter and why can't Alibaba move in to the territory of Amazon ? Or that Alipay gets little traction outside of China.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
The question is why is China not able to export these things ? Why is WeChat not replacing Twitter and why can't Alibaba move in to the territory of Amazon ? Or that Alipay gets little traction outside of China.

Part of it is because existing, mature products already exist in other markets and things like Wechat cannot really hope to offer any core functions which other more well known products can already do and have already done.

The unique offerings of Wechat (namely in providing services and e-pay) are also reflective of the company's ability to secure deals with the service providers in China to begin with, and Tencent probably doesn't have those relationships with businesses and companies outside of China to offer the functionalities it has in China. It also doesn't help that things like Facebook messenger, Whatsapp, etc already fulfill the role of Wechat in other markets anyway, so even if Wechat provided some of the functionalities it provides in China, it wouldn't be taken up.

I think Alibaba does have the potential to have impact outside of China because it is branching out into things like finance and enhancing ease of trade, and other things like cloud services and even the film industry, but even then, most of its offerings are different to Amazon and Amazon has the advantage of already being a mature service and better known brand.

There's also the fact that China's such a big and competitive market to begin with, that Tencent and Alibaba and what not probably are significantly focused on their home market first, and branching out abroad is not as high of a priority.

There are some companies who are more primarily focused towards the outside of China market, such as Apus and maybe Cheetah both of which are software companies, or Oneplus the phone maker, but they're not very big players in China to begin with.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The article says American tech companies are working with these Chinese tech companies which means there's probably a licensing fee like phones that use Android pay Google a fee. I'm giving American tech companies the benefit of the doubt because that would called stealing if it were the other way around. Why would it easily translate overseas? Most innovation is culturally based. What makes life easier in one country might not in another. What's popular in one country may not be in another. I'm sure also something from China there's a prejudice against it in the US.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
The article says American tech companies are working with these Chinese tech companies which means there's probably a licensing fee like phones that use Android pay Google a fee. I'm giving American tech companies the benefit of the doubt because that would called stealing if it were the other way around. Why would it easily translate overseas? Most innovation is culturally based. What makes life easier in one country might not in another. What's popular in one country may not be in another. I'm sure also something from China there's a prejudice against it in the US.
Then I guess PRC companies are paying tonnes of cash to Denso since Denso is the company that developed the
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in the first place.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
I think the use of QR code is free of license charge.

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Yes exactly and PRC companies utilizing QR code as a medium can't either since they do not own the patent.
Basically Tencent's system is based on QR technology which is not only the 2D bar-code system but also how it is read and encrypted. The transaction system is basically the same as cash card system so their is no originality in that part either.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Then I guess PRC companies are paying tonnes of cash to Denso since Denso is the company that developed the
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in the first place.
Uh oh, sounds like somebody is jealous and spiteful about ALL of these Chinese innovations lately to bring out anything to ruin the forum. Sigh...same ole....same ole. No wonder your Japan could never get out of it's economic slump....FOR DECADES.:rolleyes::D
 

vesicles

Colonel
The question is why is China not able to export these things ? Why is WeChat not replacing Twitter and why can't Alibaba move in to the territory of Amazon ? Or that Alipay gets little traction outside of China.

It takes time to enter a foreign market, especially when that market already has similar products / services, as Bltizo mentioned.

It took decades for SK cars like Hyundai and Kia, to gain a foothold in the US. It also took a long time for Japanese cars like Toyota and Honda to become popular in the US.

Part of it is the quality of the products themselves and part of it is image. To most mature markets in the west, China is still a new comer. Hence all the jokes about China being a copycat of everything. Why would anyone bother with a new system that is supposedly "copied" from the system that they are using now (irrelevant of the actual origin of the product)?

It takes a long time to change people's perceptions. And the willingness to adopt your technology goes along with it.
 
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