The US is the absolute leviathan of industrial espionage, proven by Snowden and Tailored Access Operations and PRISM; if the US can’t steal tech they’ll use mafia tactics to steal it eh look at TikTok and the USG last year
News on China's scientific and technological development.
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SleepyStudent, is that you? Yes the US steals but this also comes with risks.
The US is now in "harvest" mode, but that also means that is making S.Korea ans other countries wary of it.
Stealing is one of the "perks" of being a hegemon. However there is a limit on how much the US can steal without incurring a backlash
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Stop innovating because what's the point if they get robbed?
It is slightly stalled for time. The reason that the US had to resort to this is because it can't keep pace with China's development. By doing this to TSMC and Samsung, the US is essentially harvesting crops, converting long term value into immediate short term value. It will give the US a slight boost, but it is a desperation tactic because an immediate boost is a short term solution to the long term problem of moving too slowly compared to the competition. Essentially, your neighbor is earning income much faster than you are so you sold some assets to stay ahead of him... only for a bit, because a steady high income is bound to overtake large savings and assets liquidation.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
No. Many first world nations have poor innovative capacity but live just fine. The majority of economic activity comes from mundane businesses like restaurants and stores, not from cutting edge tech development.
Not really; your pawns weakening is bad for you, good for your rival, in this case, China.
No, because taking antibiotics destroys the infection. Stealing from pawns does not destroy Chinese innovation; it has no effect. So what America is doing now is akin to taking a shot of adrenaline because it's feeling down from infection; it doesn't stop the source but can give a temporary boost. If anything, a side-effect to this is that it increases bitterness towards the US and makes it easier for China to hire from those that the US has scorn.
Well, the only solution that is real is to out-innovate your competitor. The US can't do that so as far as it's choices go, maybe robbing its allies is reasonable; I don't know. But it's still a short term plan for a long term problem.
If it's not desperate, then why does the US refrain from this when China cannot challenge it technologically? Saying that science crosses national borders so robbing IP is ok is like saying love transcends blood so rape incest is ok.
China's innovation relies mostly from Chinese blood but they are educated all over the world and China produces more STEM talent than all of America's first world allies combined. Regardless of your reasoning, the real world situation is that US is panicked that it cannot keep step with Chinese innovation and it's taking steps in desperation and disregard for its national image. Despite this, it cannot change anything because America always relied on immigration and IP theft; this is nothing groundbreaking in terms of tech, only in terms of ugliness. There is no game-changer there and China will continue to overtake despite a slight boost to American position, not speed, and not acceleration, both of which the US simply cannot raise above China.
And by the way, saying that the US has successfully robbed TSMC and Samsung is premature. As the situation stands, both have given refusals, and the US has not even asked for true tech transfer yet; it is only testing the water asking for production times and client lists. The ROC has no self-respect so the chances of a crumble are greater there but South Korea at least understands that it's a sovereign nation entitled to keep their IP; Samsung is the pride of Korea. Nothing is certain there.
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manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Mine is not a hypothesis; mine is a real world observation so it cannot be wrong. Your hypothesis that a country that stops innovating in high tech will fall into poverty is wrong. Many first world countries in the EU enjoy a high GDPpc but have poor innovative capacity in high tech. Understand the key term is in high tech.
It did. Japan didn't go to shit but many sectors where Japan was at the forefront back then, Japan is no longer now. It may have a presence, but it is no challenge to the world leaders. Hence, there is no semi/IC tech that the US wishes to harvest from Japan now.
That's totally different; it was from the fall of the Soviet Union. Russia never got bullied into handing over tech to the US.
They may trade more with China in volume but they cooperate more in high tech with the US. No, China has moved on from that mentality. Any foreign high tech input is a stopgap. China is going on self-reliance. In a world where small rivals are gone and it's one-on-one with the US in tech innovation, America has no chance against China.
Except when the slaves are injured or can no longer work like they did before.
It temporarily widens the gap, as I said, but it doesn't do anything against Chinese speed and acceleration. China relies on itself now; cooperative partners were the past and the current stopgap. All of these "cooperative partners" cooperate at least as much, most of them far more, with the US than with China when it comes to high tech areas. Losing them undoubtedly hurts the US more than China.
Yes, it enhances position, but not speed or acceleration and in a race with no finish, the latter are for more important and in China's favor.
It may or may not matter. Both Samsung and TSMC have complained to their governments about American bullying and even if the government caves, individual people are free to leave, and work for China in revenge. But even if it didn't matter in the sense that you speak of, the problem is still that it doesn't matter to the pattern that China is moving faster and accelerating faster.
Why do you mention this history including stealing Mexican land? It's all old stuff that is covered by the current description that the US is innovating slower than China today.
That's just wrong. Foreign scientists have a much higher rate of brain circulation back to their origin nations after they've become useful. Relying in foreigners is an addictive and dangerous drug.
If it were unassailable, the US wouldn't be all about China, and all about stopping Chinese tech innovation. Trump started saying that China was advancing by stealing IP. By Biden, Raimondo already dropped all pretenses and said that the US and EU must work together to slow Chinese innovation. Their panic betrays your false confidence.
And a ton of them go back after graduation of work experience.
We're talking about the current situation of the US being refused by these 2 companies to provide information. The Arizona plant is snagged actually and nowhere near where the US was hoping it would move forward. Present the Samsung article and let's see.
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manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Ugh... not ALL Euros; you have to read English. Those things come from a select few countries but there are many countries in the EU, which consists of over 30 countries, that enjoy a high standard of living without being at the cutting edge of technology.
Link articles. As far as I can tell, the US asked Samsung and TSMC. It sent no request to any Japanese company.
Nice bully fantasy but actually the US dared not touch the Soviet Union but tricked it into mismanagement and stole its tech as a vulture does. It never bullied Russia into handing over anything.
Now you have yourself in a catch 22. If you maintain that trade is synonymous with tech cooperation, then it is China who harvests the most, not the US. If you say that trade is trade and cooperation is different, then the US would harm itself by draining them.
At a slower rate than China can grow and bring them home.
You just showed me a link that says the US is more reliant on cooperation than anyone else.
That is so incredibly stupid and wrong. First of all, China is nowhere near hopelessly behind; China is the leader in several technologies today and it is chopping down America's door with the US huddled and desperately calling for allies in the other areas.
Regardless of this, from a pure logic point of view, speed and acceleration will always defeat positional lead, as long as the endpoint is not defined too close to the leading position. There is no endpoint in tech competition.
As of now, they have not and everyone has their lines. And this request is not even a TOT; this is just some logistics data. Wait for the TOT request.
If they are ultimately forced, the individual engineers are more easily hired by Chinese from their bitterness. The US can gain a positional advantage, but position is a short term solution to the long term challenge of speed and acceleration.
It is, and China does some too, but my point is that stealing is only a supplement to self-innovation. An overreliance on theft will succumb you to an enemy who has superior inner power.
We just did this with your other account summing up that some 80-90% of Chinese going back to China.
Incorrect.
Estimated to operate in 2024. Then we'll see how fast the US can steal. At this rate, it's stealing slower than China can innovate. And also, you are conflating FDI with TOT. There is no given that the US will take the tech in that plant and it's even more questionable if they can do it in time before China overtakes it.
No, the US needs them more because the US depends on foreigners holding up its scientific fields. China already as an extremely powerful scientific base and the highest STEM population in the world to keep building with.
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I think you should check on where the top papers are coming from. In some fields China is already dominating, while on others it is quickly catching up.
What you are saying about scientific infrastructure was true 20 years ago and maybe 10 or even 5 years ago. Today, universities are setting up new departments and labs with brand new cutting edge equipment waiting for advanced research to be made.
Also, many national and regional scientific laboratories have been set up with a lot of budget available to research on their own specialised fields.
In fact, foreign researchers are coming to China to perform their research due to high budgets allocated to them, while also having good scientific infrastructure and most importantly, there are a lot of Chinese PhD researchers who want to do actual research with them instead of just drawing a salary every month
TLDR: You dont anything about the state of scientific research in China