New Type98/99 MBT thread

[Fantastic202]

That’s a respectable amount of protection, similar to the Abrams. I think the use of ERA for extra protection reduces the weight of the tank than if you increased the composite thickness, no?

ERA has a similar concept to the riveted armour on interwar tanks. You get a modular armour type that's fully replaceable but with ERA you can get a much lighter package. You don't really see such ERA types in western powers due to fear of infantry support being injured or killed by the ERA detonating.

Although heavy ERA isn't a 100% effective method, having it just reduce pen is enough even if you have a rather weak underlying armour value. Very good if you have such old tanks like the T-72B's that Russia and other Eastern Bloc nations have in storage.

From statistics we've been given Kontakt 5 is supposed to give a kinetic munitions reduction of 30-35% with the newer Relikt [Fig 1;] being above 50%.
Now more modern and sophisticate ERA types such as Nozh [Fig 2;] Are highly unusual, what we've been told is they give a 200-300% reduction on munitions of both Chemical and Kinetic types. With this ERA being sold to Pakistan for their older Ah-Khalid tanks it's not too far out of the realms of possibility that China have gotten some of these modules for their own tanks.


[Fig 1;] Being a simple multi layered design with several layers of explosive sheets and metal designed to defeat tandem charges and redirect the kenetic force of a ballistic munnition. Although due to Relikts large size is been relegated to being side protection.




[Fig 2;] Nozh being a little more unusual consisting of several HEAT like charges designed to decapitate and redirect any munition that detonates the block which is why it has such great performance against both munition types, but being a lot heavier.

 

[Fantastic202]

The Type-99 was created in preparation for large-scale tank battles and head-to-head tank battles. Therefore its front armor was very thick, side armor was thin

VT-4 developed for export purposes, it has been redesigned to be sleeker, lighter, highly maneuverable and has comprehensive protection on all sides, suitable for urban battles.

China's military doctrine is to avoid bringing tanks into the city, so they don't care about side armor and active protection.

Yeah you're right, but i'd say it's rather arrogant to not have anything in storage for backup.

 

[KampfAlwin]

ERA has a similar concept to the riveted armour on interwar tanks. You get a modular armour type that's fully replaceable but with ERA you can get a much lighter package. You don't really see such ERA types in western powers due to fear of infantry support being injured or killed by the ERA detonating.

Although heavy ERA isn't a 100% effective method, having it just reduce pen is enough even if you have a rather weak underlying armour value. Very good if you have such old tanks like the T-72B's that Russia and other Eastern Bloc nations have in storage.

From statistics we've been given Kontakt 5 is supposed to give a kinetic munitions reduction of 30-35% with the newer Relikt [Fig 1;] being above 50%.
Now more modern and sophisticate ERA types such as Nozh [Fig 2;] Are highly unusual, what we've been told is they give a 200-300% reduction on munitions of both Chemical and Kinetic types. With this ERA being sold to Pakistan for their older Ah-Khalid tanks it's not too far out of the realms of possibility that China have gotten some of these modules for their own tanks.


[Fig 1;] Being a simple multi layered design with several layers of explosive sheets and metal designed to defeat tandem charges and redirect the kenetic force of a ballistic munnition. Although due to Relikts large size is been relegated to being side protection.

View attachment 69891View attachment 69895


[Fig 2;] Nozh being a little more unusual consisting of several HEAT like charges designed to decapitate and redirect any munition that detonates the block which is why it has such great performance against both munition types, but being a lot heavier.
View attachment 69892View attachment 69893

How does 200-300% reduction work? Isn't 100% reduction basically destroying the projectile completely without penning the tank?
China's next generation ERA would be different, last time I checked on this forum an insider said the ERA would be electromagnetic meaning the ERA would explode before the projectile touches it.

 

[Fantastic202]

How does 200-300% reduction work? Isn't 100% reduction basically destroying the projectile completely without penning the tank?
China's next generation ERA would be different, last time I checked on this forum an insider said the ERA would be electromagnetic meaning the ERA would explode before the projectile touches it.

Sorry my fault, What i ment to say was it has a 200-300% increased effectiveness against multiple impacts. I must have overlooked it when re-reading.
Due to it being made of of multiple micro ERA plates it can take several more hits than a standard ERA pannel, but overall is a mid ground between Relikt and Kontakt 5 due to the fact it doesn't entirely destory the projectile but instead reduces it into much smaller projectiles.

 

[Orthan]

China's military doctrine is to avoid bringing tanks into the city, so they don't care about side armor and active protection.

When was the last time that the chinese army fought on a city? I think that this only reflects their lack of experience. Tanks are very useful in a city battle.

 

[Fantastic202]

When was the last time that the chinese army fought on a city? I think that this only reflects their lack of experience. Tanks are very useful in a city battle.

Maybe Vietnam?

 

[KampfAlwin]

Sorry my fault, What i ment to say was it has a 200-300% increased effectiveness against multiple impacts. I must have overlooked it when re-reading.
Due to it being made of of multiple micro ERA plates it can take several more hits than a standard ERA pannel, but overall is a mid ground between Relikt and Kontakt 5 due to the fact it doesn't entirely destory the projectile but instead reduces it into much smaller projectiles.

Ah I see, that makes sense. Seems like a useful ERA type as it is multiple use.

 

[FangYuan]

When was the last time that the chinese army fought on a city? I think that this only reflects their lack of experience. Tanks are very useful in a city battle.

China has enormous production capacity. If they wanted, they could completely replicate the Soviet model, mass-produce the tank, bring it into urban wars in many conflict regions around the world, through trial and error, Create special tanks for urban warfare. They may, but they have no reason to. The form of war has changed, technology determines the face of future warfare

Experience is an abusive concept. The azerbajians won over the Armenians with the power of technology, and they adopted a new form of war.
They don't have better tanks, stronger artillery, or braver and more experienced soldiers than their enemies. They simply sat in rooms hundreds of kilometers away, controlling UAVs and firing missiles at enemy tanks and soldiers. Who cares about the so-called "Experience" in this case

 

[Mirabo]

One point to note is that PLA equipment always seems to modernize more rapidly than doctrine. But this isn't always a bad thing.

Like the PLAN for example - they invested heavily into advanced anti-ship missiles like the YJ-12A and YJ-18 for an asymmetric edge over powerful adversaries. It was only after these were developed that doctrine shifted to focus more on air-sea operations and air defense with the UVLS on the 052D and 055. Even today, the PLAN does not have a multi-pack SAM for surface combatants and so they have a lot of catching up to do now that they have updated their doctrine. But on the positive side, it was only because they pursued a deviant doctrine in the past, that the PLAN has ASuMs like YJ-12A and YJ-18 while NATO navies are stuck with the vintage Harpoon.

I suspect we will see the same development for PLA equipment. Right now, tanks like the 99A are the ultimate expression of classic PLA doctrine - extreme focus on frontal protection, more so than any other MBT in its weight class. Maybe one day they will consider the need for urban warfare and modify doctrine accordingly. And then we might see improved side protection for a 99B variant. It could be a simple as standardizing existing upgrade options into a full package, such as blundling together the rumored 1800 HP powerplant, FY-5 ERA on the side skirts, remote weapons station, the new suspension technology from the ZTQ-15, a hard-kill APS, or maybe even the 125mm L/52, although the longer barrel would be detrimental in urban combat.

The real question is if the PLA is willing to pay for it. If they get the budget and determination to upgrade the MBTs further, they might decide to work on the Type 96 first.

 

[Sunhead_from_Arya]

How does 200-300% reduction work? Isn't 100% reduction basically destroying the projectile completely without penning the tank?
China's next generation ERA would be different, last time I checked on this forum an insider said the ERA would be electromagnetic meaning the ERA would explode before the projectile touches it.

In the practice. ERA installed on the Ukrainian BM Oplot tank shows ability to completely destroy kinetic projectile.
I don't know, how effective chinese one, but concept of ERA may be reliable against KE.