New sailless SSN (provisional)

Tomboy · 2026-06-04T17:09:44-0400

00CuriousObserver said:
It's probably wider than 11m, and also probably longer than 120m

But I am also curious about how it'll fit VLS on the non-flat portion.

tphuang said:
you are being overly technical with name here. When I say VLS, I'm thinking anything from standard single tube to VPM, just a large section for attack missions.

I think we may have our answer.

Credits to 大鱼鉴水 for spotting this, I increased the contrast on this image to make it easier to see but we could see atleast 4 vaguely circular cutouts right behind the bump with a possible 5th. Depending on how many VLS cells each tube contains, this submarine may be equipped with anywhere from 12 to 20 VLS cells, which IMO disproves the SSGN theory given that this submarine doesn't really seem to take more VLS than your standard 09IIIB or 09V. This also in my opinion casts some doubt on the dedicated special mission theory since it seems strange to waste space on your special mission submarine on these VLS cells which doesn't really reconcile with the mission requirements you'd typically expect with something like the Jimmy Carter or Belgorod. Of course, there isn't anything stopping this from being a multipurpose submarine that could do a bit of anything, the extra-large X rudders (Seems to me to be longer than 09V's but shorter in profile) likely indicate good maneuverability while drag reductions and flow noise improvements from getting rid of the sail could also allow very high silent running speeds.

BoraTas · 2026-06-04T17:20:37-0400

Tomboy said:
I think we may have our answer.
View attachment 176137
Credits to 大鱼鉴水 for spotting this, I increased the contrast on this image to make it easier to see but we could see atleast 4 vaguely circular cutouts right behind the bump with a possible 5th. Depending on how many VLS cells each tube contains, this submarine may be equipped with anywhere from 12 to 20 VLS cells, which IMO disproves the SSGN theory given that this submarine doesn't really seem to take more VLS than your standard 09IIIB or 09V. This also in my opinion casts some doubt on the dedicated special mission theory since it seems strange to waste space on your special mission submarine on these VLS cells and doesn't really reconcile with the mission requirements you'd typically expect with something like the Jimmy Carter or Belgorod. Of course, there isn't anything stopping this from being a multipurpose submarine that could do a bit of anything, the extra-large X rudders (Seems to me to be longer than 09V's but shorter in profile) likely indicate good maneuverability while drag reductions and flow noise improvements from getting rid of the sail could also yield very high silent running speeds.

Good find. I am not saying it must be like this but the Type 216 proposal had its VLS cells multi purpose, with an integrated room below them. Those too could be lock-out chambers for divers and UUVs. They would be especially useful for crossdomain UAVs.

Tomboy · 2026-06-04T17:43:03-0400

Also measured on the other axis

I also did measure this thing, assuming it is what I think it is, ie the pressure hull cap, based on @Maikeru's measurement of the smaller hull section I get around 12.7m in diameter accounting in for the picture being at an angle which could make it appear abit larger, it could be reasonably inferred that the "cap" is somewhere around ~12m in diameter.

IMO possible hybrid hull instead of double? Also, this does give a more reliable estimate for the beam of the submarine at 12-12.5m.

AndrewS · 2026-06-04T18:49:37-0400

Tomboy said:
I think we may have our answer.
View attachment 176137
Credits to 大鱼鉴水 for spotting this, I increased the contrast on this image to make it easier to see but we could see atleast 4 vaguely circular cutouts right behind the bump with a possible 5th. Depending on how many VLS cells each tube contains, this submarine may be equipped with anywhere from 12 to 20 VLS cells, which IMO disproves the SSGN theory given that this submarine doesn't really seem to take more VLS than your standard 09IIIB or 09V. This also in my opinion casts some doubt on the dedicated special mission theory since it seems strange to waste space on your special mission submarine on these VLS cells which doesn't really reconcile with the mission requirements you'd typically expect with something like the Jimmy Carter or Belgorod. Of course, there isn't anything stopping this from being a multipurpose submarine that could do a bit of anything, the extra-large X rudders (Seems to me to be longer than 09V's but shorter in profile) likely indicate good maneuverability while drag reductions and flow noise improvements from getting rid of the sail could also allow very high silent running speeds.

If it was really a SSGN, then it should be a lot longer. Given a base length of 110m for Virginia/093/095, instead of being stretched to 120m, it would have been more like 140m on the Yasen or Virginia Block 5. You get marginally less speed, less maneuvrability, but a lot more VLS.

I'm leaning towards testbed or first-in-class

Maikeru · 2026-06-04T19:03:02-0400

The relation between 09X and 095 might be the same as between J-36 and J-XDS. Different solutions to the same requirement. For PLAN having 2 designs may be a good idea in case 1 class doesn't work out as well as expected. Each design will have its pros and cons.

Blitzo · 2026-06-04T19:39:00-0400

AndrewS said:
If it was really a SSGN, then it should be a lot longer. Given a base length of 110m for Virginia/093/095, instead of being stretched to 120m, it would have been more like 140m on the Yasen or Virginia Block 5. You get marginally less speed, less maneuvrability, but a lot more VLS.

I'm leaning towards testbed or first-in-class

To be fair Yasen M is 130m long, and that's for a still fully fledged SSN with a proper torpedo complement.

A more SSGN oriented submarine that cuts back on torpedo load somewhat could definitely be viable in a 120m length.

Blitzo · 2026-06-04T19:41:03-0400

Tomboy said:
View attachment 176139
Also measured on the other axis
View attachment 176140

I also did measure this thing, assuming it is what I think it is, ie the pressure hull cap, based on @Maikeru's measurement of the smaller hull section I get around 12.7m in diameter accounting in for the picture being at an angle which could make it appear abit larger, it could be reasonably inferred that the "cap" is somewhere around ~12m in diameter.

IMO possible hybrid hull instead of double? Also, this does give a more reliable estimate for the beam of the submarine at 12-12.5m.

If the cap of a submarine is 12m or more, then if it's a hybrid hull it would mean the main central section of the pressure hull would be more than 12m.

Hybrid hulls have the bow and aft ends of the pressure hull as narrower than the central section.

So the idea of the central section of the pressure hull being of wider diameter than even 12m would be somewhat wild and point to a fairly larger submarine of even greater overall diameter than 09V by a meaningful amount

Tomboy · 2026-06-04T19:49:52-0400

Blitzo said:
If the cap of a submarine is 12m or more, then if it's a hybrid hull it would mean the main central section of the pressure hull would be more than 12m.

Hybrid hulls have the bow and aft ends of the pressure hull as narrower than the central section.

So the idea of the central section of the pressure hull being of wider diameter than even 12m would be somewhat wild and point to a fairly larger submarine of even greater overall diameter than 09V by a meaningful amount

There isn't any hard requirement for this, given that this submarine would have radically rearranged internal arrangements as suggested by the podcast today, it could possibly have a stern or forward cap that is the full diameter of the pressure hull.

I don't see any other way to reconcile the fact that JN has a huge 12.5m diameter pressure hull cap just laying around randomly.

Blitzo · 2026-06-04T20:00:33-0400

Tomboy said:
There isn't any hard requirement for this, given that this submarine would have radically rearranged internal arrangements as suggested by the podcast today, it could possibly have a stern or forward cap that is the full diameter of the pressure hull.

I don't see any other way to reconcile the fact that JN has a huge 12.5m diameter pressure hull cap just laying around randomly.

Well if we are talking about a hybrid hull in the normal sense, a narrower bow and aft is what one envisions.

If one envisions a more radical arrangement for other purposes (e.g. a narrower inner segment of the hull/amidships) then in theory it could also be called a hybrid hull but it would fit better with some of the special mission pressure hull arrangements in the world.

The 12.5m pressure cap itself isn't that confusing, the real question i think is we still don't fully know what the overall diameter of this submarine actually is.

para80 · 2026-06-04T20:09:09-0400

Maikeru said:
Apple maps has the most recent imagery of JN. In addition to finding what appear to be ~10m pressure hull sections around the largest, northernmost hall of the new sub factory (also visible in much earlier Google imagery), I also found this:

Can't measure distance on Apple and I'm not sure if it's even a submarine. But it kinda looks like one. In the basin with 2 x DDG and a Yang Wang.

Any ideas?

This is "just" a Type 039A/B/C SSK in the basin for maintenance work. This sort of appearance has become rare recently, due to I am guessing the severe slowing down (or even stop?) of SSK production, but that spot is the traditional place for these boats at JN. See related image from 2021.

PS "pro tip" (more like enthusiastic amateur)...if the imagery program doesnt allow measuring, just use building orientation points to measure elsewhere, eg on Google Earth.

New sailless SSN (provisional)

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