New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

supercat

supercat

Major
FairAndUnbiased said:
I don't get why direct hydrogen fuel cells is even considered. It's essentially a fossil fuel without any of the advantages of fossil fuel such as taking advantage of existing infrastructure or high energy density right out of the ground. Yes there are theoretical infrastructure and chemistries that can take advantage of hydrogen, but they're either low specific energy (compressed hydrogen) or combine hydrogen with carbon in an organic molecule (methane/methanol conversion) at which point you can just use it in a diesel/ICE electric hybrid directly.

I think the technology competitors should be battery EV for most passenger cars, and extremely high efficiency diesel/ICE-electric hybrids for commercial vehicles and heavier passenger cars like SUVs and pickups (used for small businesses).
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Tam said:
Yeah I don't understand why bother with the hydrogen thing either.
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My hunch is that hydrogen can be produced with clean nuclear power eventually in the future.

Guoxuan (Gotion) stocks anyone? "hiding behind VW" (VW owns 26%, or more than $1.1 billon, of the company), Guoxuan will build a battery factory in the U.S. that will supply 200 GWh LFP batteries for U.S. EV makers (probably mainly for Tesla) from 2023 to 2028. Currently, LFP is only produced in China in large scale.

In related news:

VW-Related Guoxuan High-Tech Launches Record-Setting 210 Wh/kg LFP Battery Cells​

The plan for 2022 is to reach 260 Wh/kg.

Guoxuan High-Tech Co Ltd., a Chinese battery manufacturer, has introduced this month a new high-energy-density lithium iron phosphate (LFP) lithium-ion battery cell.

The company claims that the new cells are rated at 210 Wh/kg, which is a world record and on par with NCM523 lithium-ion cells, not far from NCM622. The previous record was 200 Wh/kg, set also by Guoxuan, in 2020.

It's amazing progress, because about 10 years ago, LFP was at half of that - around 100 Wh/kg, and reached 140 Wh/kg in 2015.

The key solution to increase the cell energy density was a successful application of silicon anode material (first time), "the industrialization of pre-lithiation technology", as well as an in-house developed high-performance LFP cathode.


Cell type: pouch cell
  • 176 Wh (55 Ah; 3.2 V)
  • Weight: 830 g
  • Energy density: 212 Wh/kg
  • Cathode capacity: 150 mAh/g
  • Cathode compaction density: 2.4 g/cc

We guess that on the pack level, it might go up to about 180 Wh/kg (compared to 160 Wh/kg today).

The mass production of those new cells might start as early as late 2021/early 2022.

One of the most interesting things is that Guoxuan targets 230 Wh/kg this year and 260 Wh/kg in 2022.

Another new thing from Guoxuan is the JTM (Jellyroll to Module) tech, which as we understand, is the integrated manufacturing technology from the core of the cell to the module.

The company has shown an example JTM battery as a replacement to the automotive lead-acid battery (but there might be other sizes and applications):

  • 256 Wh (20Ah; 12.8V)
  • half the size of lead-acid battery
  • weight of 1.75 kg (compared to 7 kg of lead-acid battery)
  • life span of more than 3,000 weeks (compared to 600 weeks or 5 years of lead-acid battery)
  • similar cost to lead-acid batteries

Guoxuan is one of the largest Chinese lithium-ion battery manufacturers, although not as large as CATL and BYD.

According to the latest data, provided by Moneyball, Guoxuan delivered 3.3 GWh for New Energy Vehicles in China in 2020 (5.2% of total), including 0.94 GWh in December! CATL delivered almost 32 GWh (50% of total), while BYD 9.5 GWh.

Guoxuan's plan envisions the expansion of manufacturing capacity from 13 GWh to 28 GWh per year (about now - 2020/2021) and then increase to 80 GWh by 2023, 100 GWh by 2025.

The opportunity for growth is high, as in 2020 some 26% of the company was acquired by Volkswagen (for €1.1 billion).
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FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
supercat said:
My hunch is that hydrogen can be produced with clean nuclear power eventually in the future.

Guoxuan (Gotion) stocks anyone? "hiding behind VW" (VW owns 26%, or more than $1.1 billon, of the company), Guoxuan will build a battery factory in the U.S. that will supply 200 GWh LFP batteries for U.S. EV makers (probably mainly for Tesla) from 2023 to 2028. Currently, LFP is only produced in China in large scale.

In related news:

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that takes advantage of the very high temperatures generated. The only problem is that the products are extremely corrosive, so there may need to be a specialized design to take advantage of the chemistry. Corrosives at 850C are not trivial to deal with.

Nonetheless, I still believe that converting hydrogen to an organic fuel is more useful than trying to use hydrogen directly.
 
SteelBird

SteelBird

Colonel
supercat said:
My hunch is that hydrogen can be produced with clean nuclear power eventually in the future.

Guoxuan (Gotion) stocks anyone? "hiding behind VW" (VW owns 26%, or more than $1.1 billon, of the company), Guoxuan will build a battery factory in the U.S. that will supply 200 GWh LFP batteries for U.S. EV makers (probably mainly for Tesla) from 2023 to 2028. Currently, LFP is only produced in China in large scale.
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Can you explain why only China produces LFP in large scale? I've been hearing rumors that China holds some type of patent regard LFP, not very clear though.
 
T

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
SteelBird said:
Can you explain why only China produces LFP in large scale? I've been hearing rumors that China holds some type of patent regard LFP, not very clear though.
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You can watch this why the LFP patents, which was first made in the US, was given away to Chinese producers.


Second reason is that China started to use LFP batteries due to cost reasons for electric scooters as early as 2011. After many years, practice makes perfect.
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
BlackWindMnt said:
We are told since middle school that "five year plans" always failed and the market will always outperform it.
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@BlackWindMnt as well as now bro, as many still question China progress in DUVL and Aircraft Engine? not knowing that both are under the Special Project Program introduced by the CCP during the 13th 5 year plan 2016 -2020, with 02 project for litho and 01 project for engine. And the ranking highlighted its importance...lol
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
BlackWindMnt said:
We are told since middle school that "five year plans" always failed and the market will always outperform it.
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It's more of a 20 year plan than a 5 year plan.


This Chinese man, and not Elon Musk, is the biggest electric-car visionary
BLOOMBERG

wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/international/this-chinese-man-and-not-elon-musk-is-the-biggest-electric-car-visionary-118092701045_1.html
 
T

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
@BlackWindMnt as well as now bro, as many still question China progress in DUVL and Aircraft Engine? not knowing that both are under the Special Project Program introduced by the CCP during the 13th 5 year plan 2016 -2020, with 02 project for litho and 01 project for engine. And the ranking highlighted its importance...lol
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Do you have a list of these projects?
 
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