Miscellaneous News

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Wrap the shipment in oil paper!
I'm curious if Germans are aware of this Chinese meme tangentially about them. Strap yourself in as I explain this whole thing.

Since ancient times Chinese society could be divided into three strata:

The ruling class (王): the emperor, the imperial household, ministers and other such near the center of power
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: highly educated upper class
The people (民): everyone else

In their constant Game of Throne with the ruling class and among themselves the scholar-official class have always tried to position themselves as "the voice of the people". One mechanism they do this is a thing called "法先王" which can be translated to something like "follow the ways of ancient wise kings". They would voice social problems encounter by the common people as deviation by the ruling class from supposed ancient examples. This is not intended to be a rigorous historical fact finding despite the name, rather the "ancient wise kings" are more like imaginary utopia rather than actual workable historical solutions to new problems.

When China was defeated in 1840 in the First Opium War the scholar-official of that age realized they have to change their marketing, as the defeat of China evidently showed superiority of foreigners over Chinese tradition. Since then "法先王" has been modified to "法外国" or "follow the ways of foreigners".

The success of Xinhai Revolution greatly weakened the previous clear delineation between the three classes, and CPC's rule only furthered this. CPC's vision for China is a classless society made up of a single class called "人民“ or just The People. Hence the party slogan "为人民服务" or "Serve the People". Nevertheless even CPC cannot transform a 5000 year old social system in just a few decades and shadows of the former three classes still exist in China.

Today's counterpart to historical scholar-official are known as "公知" or "public intellectuals". They still followed the "法外国" tradition started by their fore bearers. Just as "法先王" was based on imaginary utopia so is "法外国" of today. Even as a child I felt that when public intellectuals say things like "bottom of Tokyo Bay is covered by a layer of coal deliberately bought by the Japanese government and dumped there so when there's an energy crisis their children could dig it up to save themselves, we should be forward thinking like them" it sounded pretty questionable.

Recent years two particular example of "法外国" have become memes due to how publicly they were disproven by facts:

1. The US have dozens of hospital ships already built and can redeploy them to anywhere along their coast to deal with medical emergencies like COVID-19, therefore there's nothing to be proud of being able to build those two hospitals in days

2. Germans are so rigorous and responsible that when Qingdao government tried to perform maintenance on their drainage system and could not find suitable replacement parts, they contacted Germany for help and the German said "don't worry,
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we thought ahead about this. Just dig around and you will find within 3m of the drainage pipe a package of replacement parts in perfect condition preserved by oil paper".

We all saw what happened in New York in 2020 with that first one, and the 2nd one received a huge amount of ridicule last year when all those flooding in Germany happened.

As people of China become better connected to the world via internet and traveling "法外国" will increasingly become untenable. I think however public intellectuals won't disappear entirely. Rather much like 1840 they will just invent a new paradigm to replace "法外国", possibly returning to "法先王" again.
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Sacrifices required for AR right now is already not worth it despite PLA having "massive advantage". Mainland is more important than Taiwan. 2030 may or may not be better. Entire region is arming up.

Technology has advanced to a point that one can strike anybody, anywhere, at anytime. If you are out in the open you are dead. "War of the future will be dirty, urban, and underground." Taiwan would be smart to hid a significant portion of its assets underground. Grind it out. Neutralize PLA's "overwhelming fire power". They are already training for that. The war is lost if China has to fight a protracted war.

Never assume your enemy will just surrender (unless you are Russia).
Ummm, no in a protracted war the USA will lose because their industry has been so shot to heck that just trying to allocate resources in fighting both China and Russia at the same time when not only the stocks of weapons are starting to run low but also supply chains have been affected by counter sanctions from both China and Russia and also considering how the USA is trying to pick a fight with Iran right now and seriously, if the USA ends up taking significant loses from any of these fights, well the American people will start protesting or out right rioting against the government given that the only reason why there hasn’t been Vietnam war level protests is simply because their hasn’t been the kind of American casualty since the Vietnam war to report on. If the situation in the USA with regards to the dollar or supply chain and other issues continues to deteriorate, well the USA will simply not be ready to fight China no matter what. The USA wants a quick and easy victory, not a protracted fight that will further mess with there resources issues any further. That is the reason why the USA ran away from Afghanistan so that they can focus all their resources against China but as you can see, the damage to their credibility is immense which coupled with the current debacle in Ukraine, you have a situation where the USA is actually afraid to completely push China too far because with the energy/supply issues in the USA, if they do so, then the USA isn’t going to have a very good second half of the year to put it mildly. Also in regards to Taiwan, China has all the time they need to put as much pressure on Taiwan given that the current economy in Taiwan isn’t looking too hot and let’s be honest, Chinas fire power can easily obliterate Taiwan’s defended and energy grid to the point where 7 days is enough time for the people of Taiwan to surrender with no electricity or gas or even water should we talk on real terms of fire power. But given that it’s far easier to use economic means to push Taiwan to the brink and given that the USA has no way of helping Taiwan in that area, well no matter how well the Taiwanese are trained (and given the amount of screw ups in Taiwan lately in that front), Taiwan will simply never be prepared for a real fight. And if Tsai in Wen runs away, well consider that to a major step towards reuniting with China given that this woman is no real leader, mostly like Zelensky only slightly less crazy
 

GZDRefugee

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm curious if Germans are aware of this Chinese meme tangentially about them. Strap yourself in as I explain this whole thing.

Since ancient times Chinese society could be divided into three strata:

The ruling class (王): the emperor, the imperial household, ministers and other such near the center of power
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
: highly educated upper class
The people (民): everyone else

In their constant Game of Throne with the ruling class and among themselves the scholar-official class have always tried to position themselves as "the voice of the people". One mechanism they do this is a thing called "法先王" which can be translated to something like "follow the ways of ancient wise kings". They would voice social problems encounter by the common people as deviation by the ruling class from supposed ancient examples. This is not intended to be a rigorous historical fact finding despite the name, rather the "ancient wise kings" are more like imaginary utopia rather than actual workable historical solutions to new problems.

When China was defeated in 1840 in the First Opium War the scholar-official of that age realized they have to change their marketing, as the defeat of China evidently showed superiority of foreigners over Chinese tradition. Since then "法先王" has been modified to "法外国" or "follow the ways of foreigners".

The success of Xinhai Revolution greatly weakened the previous clear delineation between the three classes, and CPC's rule only furthered this. CPC's vision for China is a classless society made up of a single class called "人民“ or just The People. Hence the party slogan "为人民服务" or "Serve the People". Nevertheless even CPC cannot transform a 5000 year old social system in just a few decades and shadows of the former three classes still exist in China.

Today's counterpart to historical scholar-official are known as "公知" or "public intellectuals". They still followed the "法外国" tradition started by their fore bearers. Just as "法先王" was based on imaginary utopia so is "法外国" of today. Even as a child I felt that when public intellectuals say things like "bottom of Tokyo Bay is covered by a layer of coal deliberately bought by the Japanese government and dumped there so when there's an energy crisis their children could dig it up to save themselves, we should be forward thinking like them" it sounded pretty questionable.

Recent years two particular example of "法外国" have become memes due to how publicly they were disproven by facts:

1. The US have dozens of hospital ships already built and can redeploy them to anywhere along their coast to deal with medical emergencies like COVID-19, therefore there's nothing to be proud of being able to build those two hospitals in days

2. Germans are so rigorous and responsible that when Qingdao government tried to perform maintenance on their drainage system and could not find suitable replacement parts, they contacted Germany for help and the German said "don't worry,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
we thought ahead about this. Just dig around and you will find within 3m of the drainage pipe a package of replacement parts in perfect condition preserved by oil paper".

We all saw what happened in New York in 2020 with that first one, and the 2nd one received a huge amount of ridicule last year when all those flooding in Germany happened.

As people of China become better connected to the world via internet and traveling "法外国" will increasingly become untenable. I think however public intellectuals won't disappear entirely. Rather much like 1840 they will just invent a new paradigm to replace "法外国", possibly returning to "法先王" again.
All this can simply be summed up as:
There will always be reactionaries to every revolution. The petite bourgeoisie are prone to counter-revolutionary behaviour.

Which can further be simplified to:
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
 

Chilled_k6

Junior Member
Registered Member
My reasons to wait for reunification until China surpasses the US undisputedly:

1. As America's global war crimes show, creating war has no consequences when you are the strongest country in the world but it carries high costs when you are not, as seen in Ukraine.

2. Taiwan is an issue that gives fire to the Chinese people and our souls. We work hard because we feel insult when the Taiwan issue is raised. If that issue is resolved, our will to sacrifice for national power is diminished, and China may ascend significantly slower. Overtaking the US may no longer be a pressing issue since there's no shame in being number 2 but horrible shame to continuously be provoked and inflamed over your own sovereignty just because you are number 2.
To surpass the US undisputedly and achieve what you've described in point 1, that would mean supplanting the US not just economically but also having the world order reoriented around China. The paradox is China may actually have to demonstrate it's number 1 by taking Taiwan first and/or go to war with the US to achieve this. The rest of the world will not recognize China with point number 1 status if China can't take care of reunification.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Today, you are right. But a Ukrainized Taiwan can easily fight for a year. Just the battle of Taipei can last months.

Hate to disagree with you, but you're overlooking something essential. Ukraine turned pro-West because Europe was offering a more tantalizing economic prospect than Russia.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is economically dependent on the Mainland. Wealthy Taiwanese make their fortune on the Mainland, and more and more Taiwanese are moving to Mainland for a better future.

For the Ukrainians, it was either give up on their dreams of Western prosperity or face the wrath of Russia. They chose the former.

For the Taiwanese, while it's easy to be a keyboard warrior, actually joining the military means hardship (even with their relatively comfortable training). Young Taiwanese would gladly declare themselves willing to fight for Taiwan, except none of them wants to join the army. Some of them even says they will join up if the Mainland invades.

The truth is, few people in Taiwan actually believe the Mainland will invade. Most of them believe the status quo will continue indefinitely. These are not the kind of people that will respond to a call to arms.


By 2035 we will have a much more focused US military and a significantly higher proportion of it will be in West Pacific. Coupled with Japanese and Taiwanese military growth, this is very significant. To sum up, China benefits from waiting but the picture in 2035 won't be much better than it is today. Most pro-China people look at how the current picture and extrapolate that China would curb stomp the USA in West Pacific in a conflict in 2035. But that won't be the case. That's only possible if the USA invades Iran and has another Vietnam there.

I think you are ignoring the political situation in the US. The partisan division is growing ever wider, and a significant fraction of the American population feel persecuted and have declared their willingness to take up arms against a democratically elected government that they oppose.

The American economy is also feeling the effects of decades of plundering by the MIC and Wall Street. Opioid addiction is rampant, as is homelessness and poverty. As much as the ruling elite might want to start a war to distract from domestic problems, American society is in no shape to sustain the financial and human burdens of another conflict, nevermind one that would make their WW2 experience seem like a cakewalk.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
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Ccp is genociding the water. Cultural genocide, erasure of identity.
I like how even they are calling it an imaginary line.

It's good time to remind everyone that when this medium line was first established the rule wasn't "PRC stay on that side and ROC stay on this side". No that's very far from the truth. Instead originally US and ROC forces was allowed to fire upon PLA without warning if PLA so much as move away from China's immediate coast and move towards the midline.

The status que was only changed by CPC effort starting around the Second Taiwan Strait crisis. PLAAF fought numerous large scale aerial battles with ROCAF. As with this current Fourth Taiwan Strait crisis only the application of force could change the status quo.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
The status que was only changed by CPC effort starting around the Second Taiwan Strait crisis. PLAAF fought numerous large scale aerial battles with ROCAF. As with this current Fourth Taiwan Strait crisis only the application of force could change the status quo.
And PLAAF was hit in the butt with a Sidewinder that led to the development of K13 ATOLL AAM.
 

BoraTas

Major
Registered Member
The sacrifices for an AR will be worth it in any scenario. Will the US let the PLA sends thousands of troops to fortified the Mexican border? Ask yourself that and you already know the answer. This is an existential threat and the belief that it will hurt the mainland too much to be worth it is nonsensical.

Do you think Russia should have not invaded Ukraine because it was not worth it despite it being a existential threat from NATO to destroy Russia? Do you think the US won’t react if China or Russia started building huge bases in Canada or Mexico?

The only scearnio where the US is pleased is where China is completely destroyed, split apart, and suppressed. There is no “it’s not worth it” when the other side is calling to sit on a throne of Chinese skulls.
Taking Taiwan makes sense from putting pressure on Japan aspect too. In my opinion, Japan and its relationship with the USA is the biggest strategic threat China faces today. Japan is basically a massive aircraft carrier and replenishment vessel for the US military. Imagine Japan being neutral. The vast majority of the military pressure China faces wouldn't exist. Even the FONOPS are usually done by assets based in Japan. All those spy aircraft are based or refueled in Japan. Even the aircraft which escorted Pelosi were from Japan.
 
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