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Coalescence

Coalescence

Senior Member
Registered Member
AssassinsMace said:
I would love if China could just ignore the US but it doesn't. Even though US power is diminishing, Chinese still want some respect from the US. I've told this story before where I was a friend's party. They had a daughter that was intentionally annoying the guests one by one. You can tell everyone was bothered but they didn't say anything. She finally got to me and I ignored her for the moment and when she wasn't satisfied that I didn't give the attention she expected, she started hitting me with a bean bag toy she was holding. I took the bean bag away from her and she was angry and said, "I hate you!" And then I said, "Good I love it when you hate me." She was shocked and started crying and walked away never bothering anyone again. Did I do something wrong? Did I abuse a child? No, she was upset because I didn't respond as expected. She expected me to be upset at her hating me and she surely didn't expect joy from being hated by her. It did not compute in her young mind so all she could was retreat. The US is that arrogant daughter. Ignoring is not enough. They have to know the consequences and the best ones are the ones they don't expect. Does anyone think Americans would care if they sunk a Chinese carrier and killed hundreds of Chinese? No, they would be celebrating. It's not surprising they would expect the opposite if one of their carriers were sunk. That's the lopsided relationship they expect and it should be thrown in their face that those are legitimate targets simply because the US would not hold back in targeting a Chinese carrier.
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I don't see China wanting respect from US, maybe the individuals sure, but lately I haven't seen them giving US any concessions, in fact the opposite has been happening where China is continuing to expand their influence in the pacific region and standing firm on their position with Russia which angers US a lot. If China wanted US to respect them, then these actions doesn't show that, the only way US will ever respect China is if China becomes a vassal state to the US.

On US acting like a spoiled brat, this is to be expected from a nation with a hegemonic mindset, but if you look beyond the veneer of arrogance and bravado, the decision makers are still somewhat reasonable, especially those serving in their army, their attitudes are not a true reflection of their intellect and decision making. China doing tic for tat and punishment doesn't really win anything other than spiritual victory, and sometimes it serves US interest by having China react harshly, its better to focus on their own interest instead of being the one to react all the time.

Also when US is threatening to nuke China if their own aircraft carrier being destroyed its a show of weakness and insecurity not strength, a confident superpower will not resort to threatening using the nuclear stick if they think they can win. I also don't find the threat of nuclear escalation if their aircraft carrier getting destroyed credible because of MAD doctrine, and probably the reason for such a response is because they know they rely heavily on their navy for power projection. I wonder what would be left of US military power if all of their aircraft carriers are destroyed.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I was watching CNN the other day and they had second live video in the corner of the screen showing a C-17 carrying a load of baby formula landing in the US from Germany like it was a breaking news event. It was all show because one C-17 isn't going to be enough to supply the lack of baby formula in the US. They're going to need a Berlin airlift a thousand time over. But for the dumb it shows how important an issue it is that the US is putting such attention to it by involving the military. Biden is full of superficial moves that mean nothing in reality.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Coalescence said:
I don't see China wanting respect from US, maybe the individuals sure, but lately I haven't seen them giving US any concessions, in fact the opposite has been happening where China is continuing to expand their influence in the pacific region and standing firm on their position with Russia which angers US a lot. If China wanted US to respect them, then these actions doesn't show that, the only way US will ever respect China is if China becomes a vassal state to the US.

On US acting like a spoiled brat, this is to be expected from a nation with a hegemonic mindset, but if you look beyond the veneer of arrogance and bravado, the decision makers are still somewhat reasonable, especially those serving in their army, their attitudes are not a true reflection of their intellect and decision making. China doing tic for tat and punishment doesn't really win anything other than spiritual victory, and sometimes it serves US interest by having China react harshly, its better to focus on their own interest instead of being the one to react all the time.

Also when US is threatening to nuke China if their own aircraft carrier being destroyed its a show of weakness and insecurity not strength, a confident superpower will not resort to threatening using the nuclear stick if they think they can win. I also don't find the threat of nuclear escalation if their aircraft carrier getting destroyed credible because of MAD doctrine, and probably the reason for such a response is because they know they rely heavily on their navy for power projection. I wonder what would be left of US military power if all of their aircraft carriers are destroyed.
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Sorry I disagree that Beijing doesn't seek respect from the US. Look at how Asian countries brag about who the US likes more than China. It's like the Teacher's pet mentality. Why do the students hate the Teacher's pet? Because they all know it's about believing they're the favorite of the teacher over everyone else.

Look at the rising anti-Asian violence "because of the pandemic" being committed against any Asian ethnicity and not just Chinese and Asians still seek acceptance by the US. At a personal level, you see Asians bragging about their association with white people as sign they're better than other Asians. I know of Asian women who only date white men for that very purpose where around their boyfriend's circle of friends especially white women look at them as less but that's okay just as long as they feel superior to all other Asian women. I've read that Beijing seeks acceptance from the West because the Chinese people see that as important hence legitimizes their rule by giving what the people want. Any connection?
 
Coalescence

Coalescence

Senior Member
Registered Member
AssassinsMace said:
Sorry I disagree that Beijing doesn't seek respect from the US. Look at how Asian countries brag about who the US likes more than China. It's like the Teacher's pet mentality. Why do the students hate the Teacher's pet? Because they all know it's about believing they're the favorite of the teacher over everyone else.

Look at the rising anti-Asian violence "because of the pandemic" being committed against any Asian ethnicity and not just Chinese and Asians still seek acceptance by the US. At a personal level, you see Asians bragging about their association with white people as sign they're better than other Asians. I know of Asian women who only date white men for that very purpose where around their boyfriend's circle of friends especially white women look at them as less but that's okay just as long as they feel superior to all other Asian women. I've read that Beijing seeks acceptance from the West because the Chinese people see that as important hence legitimizes their rule by giving what the people want. Any connection?
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On a government level, I don't see them bragging or vying for respect from the West. On the individual level, yes there are groups of people who wants to be respected or accepted by the West. I'm more focused on how the government of their countries act than what their people think because from time to time again, government have shown to not care what the common people think, like Europe destroying their own economies through sanctions, US destroying their own businesses through trade war, and China with some of their lockdown policies. I agree the west worshipping is a problem for the Asian population, but its not a good explanation or analysis on how countries act and how they form their foreign policies. But at least there's been a growing anti-West sentiment within China, and the pro-western liberal attitudes are starting to die off and becoming unpopular.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Coalescence said:
On a government level, I don't see them bragging or vying for respect from the West. On the individual level, yes there are groups of people who wants to be respected or accepted by the West. I'm more focused on how the government of their countries act than what their people think because from time to time again, government have shown to not care what the common people think, like Europe destroying their own economies through sanctions, US destroying their own businesses through trade war, and China with some of their lockdown policies. I agree the west worshipping is a problem for the Asian population, but its not a good explanation or analysis on how countries act and how they form their foreign policies. But at least there's been a growing anti-West sentiment within China, and the pro-western liberal attitudes are starting to die off and becoming unpopular.
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Well Beijing embarrassingly whining about not being a part of the International Space Station is all about acceptance when they showed they can build their own space station and that came after being rejected. It was about China being a part of the international community, aka being accepted by the West because they run all the international organizations.
 
Coalescence

Coalescence

Senior Member
Registered Member
AssassinsMace said:
Well Beijing embarrassingly whining about not being a part of the International Space Station is all about acceptance when they showed they can build their own space station and that came after being rejected. It was about China being a part of the international community, aka being accepted by the West because they run all the international organizations.
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Oh, for those cases China is not complaining because they want to be accepted in the "international community", its more on the material and development benefits that could have been obtained if they are involved being barred from them, forcing them to expend their own resources, time and effort in creating the same project, when they could have gotten it for less if they were involved in that international project.

If you're a leader of country, you would want to be joining organizations and projects that have multiple countries involved to gain benefit and not get left out in development, some of the initiatives made by US are also built around to contain China. Being in a those organization can give you leverages and influences on the members and the project itself, this is why China wants to join CPTPP when it was originally made to contain it.
 
horse

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Seems strange, but the ambiguity, and double talk, has kept the peace.

There have been close to none, no wars in Asia after the China Vietnam border war.

Someone like Kissinger, has to be impressed with that.

Ambiguity and double talk, managed to keep the peace between the straits all these decades, while Kissinger saw his own country never stop fighting all those stupid wars.
 
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