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SilentObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
The French nuclear attack submarine Émeraude and naval support ship Seine have sailed through the South China Sea, according to a tweet by France’s defence minister. Photo: Twitter

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South China Sea: challenge to Beijing as French nuclear submarine patrols contested waterway​

  • Defence minister says France has exclusive economic zones in the Indo-Pacific that it intends to protect
  • Manoeuvre by submarine and support ship is proof French navy can deploy with allies for long periods far from home, Florence Parly says
A French submarine carried out a patrol through the
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as part of efforts by
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to challenge Beijing’s sweeping claims in the disputed waters.

France’s defence minister Florence Parly tweeted late on Monday that the French nuclear attack submarine Émeraude and naval support ship Seine sailed through the contentious waters to “affirm that international law is the only rule that is valid, whatever the sea where we sail”.

“This extraordinary patrol just completed its passage in the South China Sea,” she wrote. “This is striking proof of the capacity of our French navy to deploy far away and for a long time, together with our Australian, American and Japanese strategic partners.”

Parly added that France had exclusive economic zones in the Indo-Pacific region, and intended to
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there.

France has carried out several freedom of navigation operations in the energy-rich South China Sea in the past, joining countries such as Britain and the United States in pushing back against China’s growing dominance in and militarisation of the region. Beijing has overlapping territorial claims in the waters with several neighbours, including the Philippines, Vietnam and Malaysia.

In September last year, France, Germany and Britain issued a joint statement to the United Nations in favour of the
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against most of Beijing’s claims in the South China Sea. The three countries said Beijing’s claims to “historic rights” in the waters did not comply with international law.

Parly said at the
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in June 2019 that Paris would continue to sail in the South China Sea more than twice a year and urged other like-minded countries to follow to maintain open access in the waters.

Beijing has long protested against the presence of foreign warships near the South China Sea, and claimed that France recognised China’s sovereignty in the waters, including over the Spratly Islands. The islands, which China calls the Nansha Islands, were once occupied by France.

The Chinese foreign ministry and defence ministry did not immediately respond to requests for comment on France’s latest operation.

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T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
B.I.B. said:
The article suggests Americans should go to Taiwan to learn to speak Mandarin. I gather that written Chinese is slightly different between the two countries, is there any difference in spoken Mandarin?
Click to expand...
I know you are not saying it on purpose, but I must make the correction before I reply, it is two regions of the same country, Taiwan and Mainland. Both constitutions on the two sides declares one China covering both regions.

The difference in spoken Mandarin is as big as the difference between British English (BBC English) and American English (CNN English).

Mandarin is a group of dialects that encompass more than two third of China's area. Mainland's (standard) mandarin is based on the pronunciation of a dialect in Luanping county, Chengde city, Hebei province, a variant of Beijing dialect. The vocabulary is based on northern mandarin dialects (north, northeast and northwest). Taiwan's mandarin (国语 national speech) is an evolution of Nanjing mandarin (near Shanghai if you want to know the geography) before 1949 when ROC ruled China. Nanjing mandarin was the standard because it was the capital of ROC before 1949. However due to the fact that ROC's time was full of wars and fragmentation, Nanjing mandarin was never really spread through the country.

The difference is very obvious to native speakers just like British and American. The general feeling is that Beijing mandarin is thick and robust while Nanjing mandarin is thin and sharp. One important fact is that contrary to the belief of Beijing dialect being the base, standard mandarin based on Luanping dialect does not have the heavy nasal sound and over usage of "er" sound at end of word like Beijing dialect.

The vocabulary also diverted after ROC retreated to Taiwan, something similar to "Pants" in American and "Trousers", such as 激光 vs 镭射, all means LASER, 导弹 vs 飞弹 meaning missile.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
siegecrossbow said:
What is there to debate? The COVID outbreak was handled poorly in Hubei initially. No need to white wash this.
Click to expand...
Nobody or region would fare much better than Hubei IF any better at all. Others are better because they know what the virus is and what it was capable of, lessons learnt from Hubei. The "poorly" in Hubei is because they have no clue what they are facing. We should not be 事后诸葛亮.

As about the "whistleblower", he is just a person who had access to internal information which was not confirmed yet, he spread that information for the sake of his relatives and friends. On that account, he should not be blamed for what he did. BUT, he is no hero at all because his act did NOT save anyone. You would believe the label "whistleblower" ONLY if there is a deliberate cover-up for something of known seriousness and danger. If you were a doctor in December 2019 looking at lots of people with symptoms similar to common flu but bit more severe, are you confident to raise the alarm of a coming disaster before going through all the data? I doubt anyone could do much different.

To conclude, Hubei made mistakes that others would very like have done too. That is not white wash, but reality of human facing an incoming unknown disaster.
 
horse

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
SilentObserver said:
True sovereignty to national governments would be seen as sedition to the global empire. So long as US is able to maintain its pillars of power, the game can go on for a long time.
Click to expand...
We have to think of two questions.

1. What comes next.
2. Why use USD in international transactions?

To answer the second question, to use USD in international transactions, is that it is convenient. That is the main reason. Two parties can use any currency they want to make a deal. Russia and China already below 50% in their usage of USD in their trade and going lower, all the way to near zero would logical. All these sanctions from the Americans make using the USD inconvenient for Russia and China, now they do not want to bother with it.

Europe uses the Euro for trade for the most part, not USD.

In fact, outside of petroleum products, the use of USD for trade is not dominated by USD. This has been the case for a while.

Another example is those Greek bailouts when they had their sovereign debt crisis. The loans were all made in Euros. The Americans with their USD did not arrive providing liquidity for the Greeks, it was the Germans with their Euros and other northern European countries.

The Euro is prominent in international trade, because a lot of trade happens between European countries. They have the Euro, no need to use USD.

That is the answer to the first question, what comes next is the gradual decline of usage of the USD in international trade. For example, Iran will accept RMB from China for its oil.

China and ASEAN uses USD for their trade. The United States is not part of the RCEP. If the countries can figure out how to avoid paying extra bank fees when using USD for their trade, they will no longer use USD for their trade between each other.

The real question is not how much power the United States has, the real question is whether other countries would want to work with the United States in maintaining the current currency arrangements, when everyone knows the Fed is running the printing presses.

As of today, for the past few years or decades, Europe no longer uses USD for their trade between each other. This will spread around the world. RCEP in the long run is not beholden to the USD. Africa announced a trade union, they probably be using Euros and USD.

Bolombatto2.jpg


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horse

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Comrade SilentObserver,

One other idea we should mention, about the oil trade, where most of China's oil is coming from the Middle East.

Suppose the Chinese oil guy or woman, says to the Saudi oil person the following,

China: "We paying for your oil in USD."

Saudis: "Sounds good!"

China: "Next year, we gonna pay for your oil in RMB."

Saudis: "Why? We want USD like always!"

China: "We pay you in RMB, they you take RMB to buy Chinese marchadise, like made in China, and everything made in China! Then when you buy made in China merchandise in RMB, you do not have to bother wtih currency fluctuations anymore of USD, make life easeir and use RMB to pay us for made in China Huawei cell phones.

Saudis: "Good idea! We diversify our currency risk this way! We all know who is printing money non-stop!"

Does not matter how much power the Americans have. They cannot stop a conversation like this from happening.

:D
 
B

B.I.B.

Captain
horse said:
Comrade SilentObserver,

One other idea we should mention, about the oil trade, where most of China's oil is coming from the Middle East.

Suppose the Chinese oil guy or woman, says to the Saudi oil person the following,

China: "We paying for your oil in USD."

Saudis: "Sounds good!"

China: "Next year, we gonna pay for your oil in RMB."

Saudis: "Why? We want USD like always!"

China: "We pay you in RMB, they you take RMB to buy Chinese marchadise, like made in China, and everything made in China! Then when you buy made in China merchandise in RMB, you do not have to bother wtih currency fluctuations anymore of USD, make life easeir and use RMB to pay us for made in China Huawei cell phones.

Saudis: "Good idea! We diversify our currency risk this way! We all know who is printing money non-stop!"

Does not matter how much power the Americans have. They cannot stop a conversation like this from happening.

:D
Click to expand...
If the dollar used for trade settlement is not against WTO rules then China needs to persuade other countries she buys iron ore from to take at the very least RMB for payment/part payment. At the appropriate time, she can make the same demand of the Aussies ore, wine barley, etc. If the Aussies don't agree then walk away. I don't know if the Aussies have a case to take to the WTO.
 
K

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
SilentObserver said:
The French nuclear attack submarine Émeraude and naval support ship Seine have sailed through the South China Sea, according to a tweet by France’s defence minister. Photo: Twitter

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

South China Sea: challenge to Beijing as French nuclear submarine patrols contested waterway​

  • Defence minister says France has exclusive economic zones in the Indo-Pacific that it intends to protect
  • Manoeuvre by submarine and support ship is proof French navy can deploy with allies for long periods far from home, Florence Parly says
A French submarine carried out a patrol through the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
as part of efforts by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to challenge Beijing’s sweeping claims in the disputed waters.

France’s defence minister Florence Parly tweeted late on Monday that the French nuclear attack submarine Émeraude and naval support ship Seine sailed through the contentious waters to “affirm that international law is the only rule that is valid, whatever the sea where we sail”.

“This extraordinary patrol just completed its passage in the South China Sea,” she wrote. “This is striking proof of the capacity of our French navy to deploy far away and for a long time, together with our Australian, American and Japanese strategic partners.”

Parly added that France had exclusive economic zones in the Indo-Pacific region, and intended to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
there.

France has carried out several freedom of navigation operations in the energy-rich South China Sea in the past, joining countries such as Britain and the United States in pushing back against China’s growing dominance in and militarisation of the region. Beijing has overlapping territorial claims in the waters with several neighbours, including the Philippines, Vietnam and Malaysia.

In September last year, France, Germany and Britain issued a joint statement to the United Nations in favour of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
against most of Beijing’s claims in the South China Sea. The three countries said Beijing’s claims to “historic rights” in the waters did not comply with international law.

Parly said at the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in June 2019 that Paris would continue to sail in the South China Sea more than twice a year and urged other like-minded countries to follow to maintain open access in the waters.

Beijing has long protested against the presence of foreign warships near the South China Sea, and claimed that France recognised China’s sovereignty in the waters, including over the Spratly Islands. The islands, which China calls the Nansha Islands, were once occupied by France.

The Chinese foreign ministry and defence ministry did not immediately respond to requests for comment on France’s latest operation.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...
it would be interesting to know how long the sub stayed on the surface. That constitutes innocent passage like the first U.S. FONOP passage (non-stop with fire-control radars off) which was actually de-jure recognition of China's claims.
 
Temstar

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
B.I.B. said:
If the dollar used for trade settlement is not against WTO rules then China needs to persuade other countries she buys iron ore from to take at the very least RMB for payment/part payment. At the appropriate time, she can make the same demand of the Aussies ore, wine barley, etc. If the Aussies don't agree then walk away. I don't know if the Aussies have a case to take to the WTO.
Click to expand...
China has already started trading for iron ore in RMB:

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A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
horse said:
We have to think of two questions.

1. What comes next.
2. Why use USD in international transactions?

To answer the second question, to use USD in international transactions, is that it is convenient. That is the main reason. Two parties can use any currency they want to make a deal. Russia and China already below 50% in their usage of USD in their trade and going lower, all the way to near zero would logical. All these sanctions from the Americans make using the USD inconvenient for Russia and China, now they do not want to bother with it.

Europe uses the Euro for trade for the most part, not USD.

In fact, outside of petroleum products, the use of USD for trade is not dominated by USD. This has been the case for a while.

Another example is those Greek bailouts when they had their sovereign debt crisis. The loans were all made in Euros. The Americans with their USD did not arrive providing liquidity for the Greeks, it was the Germans with their Euros and other northern European countries.

The Euro is prominent in international trade, because a lot of trade happens between European countries. They have the Euro, no need to use USD.

That is the answer to the first question, what comes next is the gradual decline of usage of the USD in international trade. For example, Iran will accept RMB from China for its oil.

China and ASEAN uses USD for their trade. The United States is not part of the RCEP. If the countries can figure out how to avoid paying extra bank fees when using USD for their trade, they will no longer use USD for their trade between each other.

The real question is not how much power the United States has, the real question is whether other countries would want to work with the United States in maintaining the current currency arrangements, when everyone knows the Fed is running the printing presses.

As of today, for the past few years or decades, Europe no longer uses USD for their trade between each other. This will spread around the world. RCEP in the long run is not beholden to the USD. Africa announced a trade union, they probably be using Euros and USD.

Bolombatto2.jpg


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Click to expand...
@horse

Great explanation bro , so it's a protection racket and if your a small fry either you accept it and live or choose not to and have a regime change. :cool:
 
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