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pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
yes yes yes Arab soft power airlines Dubai
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that was previous generation of Arab Royals that laid foundation of what world enjoying today like luxury travel in planes like A380. but that setup gave too much importance to Germans. To reverse this process not only Ukraine conflict has to meet Arabic standards but dealing with German vassals in Global south.
this specific question about rare earth to Saudi Minister. rare earth can finish off German industry by building alternative products with less manpower and Putin be little any foreign contribution to Aurus vehicle.
With Saudi its is not just business. You can easily observe from pics posted earlier. All Saudis are men and on event floor women assistants highly likely having children. This transformation that Gulf Royals expect from Russia.
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— Dear Minister, of course, you know that there is a tendency in the world to search for and develop rare earth metals. Does Saudi Arabia have potential for these types of minerals? Are you considering the prospects for joint cooperation with Russia in this area?

— Absolutely. Last year we announced that our reserves had grown from $1.3 trillion to $1.5 trillion, some of which are rare earths. We think we have a good percentage. We are now at a stage of greater understanding, so we need collaboration, trying to get more data on our rare earth reserves and the type of metals. But I think it is also interesting and important to work on technologies — how to separate these elements and how to process them so that they are ready for industrial use.
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Putin reveals what he discussed in the Aurus with foreign leaders​

with UAE President Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, and when asked what they had discussed, the Russian president said, "I spoke about the advantages of this car, which was designed in Russia and produced entirely with Russian components. Yes, we turned to our technology partners for assistance, but they only offered an advisory role. It is 100% Russian-made
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ficker22

ficker22

Senior Member
Registered Member
pmc said:
that was previous generation of Arab Royals that laid foundation of what world enjoying today like luxury travel in planes like A380. but that setup gave too much importance to Germans. To reverse this process not only Ukraine conflict has to meet Arabic standards but dealing with German vassals in Global south.
this specific question about rare earth to Saudi Minister. rare earth can finish off German industry by building alternative products with less manpower and Putin be little any foreign contribution to Aurus vehicle.
With Saudi its is not just business. You can easily observe from pics posted earlier. All Saudis are men and on event floor women assistants highly likely having children. This transformation that Gulf Royals expect from Russia.
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What?
 
FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Major
plawolf said:
You guys are focusing mainly on practicalities and missing the key fundamental difference between China and the west when it comes to meritocracy, which is the attitude of the people towards it.

China is not unique in world civilisation in that the core fundamentals defining features of civilisation survives the fall of past regimes and is enthusiastically embraced and continued by the new. What truly sets China apart is how intolerant its people are to bad rulers. In no other civilisation has the people overthrown their rulers as frequently and consistently as the Chinese when those rulers start loosing their way and become incompetent.

France and Russia are the only European examples where a revolution has actually uprooted the aristocracy ruling class, and they have only done it once, and relatively recently.
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That is a very idealized and romanticized view of the Mandate of Heaven that does not hold up to actual history. There has only been a single dynasty that was overthrown from a popular rebellion. Every other dynasty has been overthrown due to conflicts between the elites / noble families / military commanders. Qin: overthrown by nobles of conquered states, primarily from Chu. Han: overthrown by military coup followed by civil war between noble families / military commanders. Jin: usurpation by a nobleman. Sui: revolt by the military / noble families. Tang: revolt by military governors. Song: foreign conquest. Yuan: only dynasty to be toppled by peasant rebellion, but only after dynasty was weakened by revolt by Mongol nobles / princes. Ming: nobles sided with Manchus.

While only France and Russia had complete revolutions that destroyed their nobilities, countless European monarchs have been beheaded by their nobles over the course the history. Dynastic overthrow of the ruling family was not unique to China.

plawolf said:
In all other civilisations the destruction of the aristocracy nobility also effectively destroyed the civilisation because it was the nobility who ran the machinery of governance, kept the history and records. And without them, there was no continuity of the civilisation, and things got worse extremely quickly after a fall and it took a long long time for civilisation to recover, so much so that what comes after is massively different from what was before.

This is why there is such a massively deep rooted cultural nostalgia about paradise lost and aversion to change in western peoples. They instinctively pine for lost past glory days of the post world war dynamism of the greatest generation; the world conquering dominance of the colonial era; the glory of Roman; the enlightenment of Greece; all the way back to the garden of Eden.

Their entire racial genetic memory and cultural teaching towards governance basically boils down to - don’t rock the boat with change or we risk another collapse and fall further from gods grace. This is why western democracy is held so sacrosanct, with zero tolerance shown to any idea or notion that it’s not the best form of governance that mankind can ever achieve and should not be changed in any way, shape or form. So in the west, while of course meritocracy exists, but it was largely limited to the plebeian masses as a means of rising (a little) above the station of their birth. But the nobility were able to largely keep themselves above such petty concerns and kept an iron grip on the paths into government and power. The self made ‘new money’ titans of industry built western economic and military power, but it was the ‘old
Money’ aristocracy that wielded that power.
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Change of dynasty never resulted in destruction of the nobility. A significant proportion of the noble families simply continued to be influential across dynasties. And most dynasties following the Tang were very resistant to change. The dominant ideology of all Chinese dynasties after the Tang was Song-Ming Lixue, which is focused entirely on preserving the traditional order and social hierarchy. Only following the fall of the Qing dynasty and the Communist Revolution was the power and wealth of the nobility completely destroyed in China.

What really sets China apart from the West was that for most of the last two thousand years, China had no external threats. The Han dynasty conquered all cultivatable lands known to the Chinese at the time, assimilating or displacing all other peoples. When a Chinese dynasty collapses into civil war, the internal struggle will simply continue until one side emerges on top. When Rome fell into internal strife and disorder, the Germanic people swept in and established their own states. In China, there was no foreign group of peoples numerous or strong enough to capitalize on the chaos and sweep in to establish their own civilization. Chinese civilization was continuous because there was nobody else around strong enough to establish their own civilization.
 
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FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Major
TPenglake said:
How could it have failed when it, although not entirely on its own, was one of the largest contributing factors to China's continued territorial and cultural unity for over 2000 years? Obviously all government systems in antiquity and the medieval world could be considered failures if you hold them by the standards of the modern world. But if we're talking about the purpose they served in those days and how it ultimately evolved into the modern CPC, we can say the imperial system of Dynastic China fulfilled its purpose in spades.
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Yes, my point was that all human states have followed this pattern and non have succeeded in escaping the cycle of rise and decline. So yes, all government systems to date (not just of those in antiquity and the medieval world - but modern ones as well, ie modern day US) have failed.
TPenglake said:
Well mind you, the PRC as we know it today is only 76 years old. The Ming Dynasty lasted some 275 odd years before meeting its end, whose to say the same fate won't befall the PRC in that timeframe? I mean 200 years is a long time. If the whole point here is to argue that all the failures of China's previous dynasties have been rectified by the PRC then I'm of the opinion making such speculation is moot, since such a hypothesis will only be truly tested and proven by the time when, nevermind us, even most of our great great grandchildren will be long dead.
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I am not suggesting the modern PRC has found a solution to this problem yet. I hope with modern day technology and resources that the PRC will eventually be able to come up with an even better solution, but like you mentioned, we will not be able to know in our lifetime.
TPenglake said:
Human nature is what it is and no matter the culture or how great the Empire, decadence and decay always follow and I'm sure the PRC is no less vulnerable to such a stage in a civilization's political path. However, so long as the core principle of bestowing leadership and positions based on competence, established all the way back in antiquity, is preserved through the cycles of rise and collapse then China will endure.

At least I think that's the gist of what we're trying to argue here, but even if not that's my two cents.
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Yes, that was my point. And that no state/civilization/system of government to date has managed to break that cycle to date.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
FriedRiceNSpice said:
Yes, my point was that all human states have followed this pattern and non have succeeded in escaping the cycle of rise and decline. So yes, all government systems to date (not just of those in antiquity and the medieval world - but modern ones as well, ie modern day US) have failed.

I am not suggesting the modern PRC has found a solution to this problem yet. I hope with modern day technology and resources that the PRC will eventually be able to come up with an even better solution, but like you mentioned, we will not be able to know in our lifetime.

Yes, that was my point. And that no state/civilization/system of government to date has managed to break that cycle to date.
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China needs not just technological innovation, but social innovation, otherwise the same problems will come back, and at this critical time in humanity's history, which will last for at least 100+ years, a collapse is irrecoverable. There are just fewer and fewer chances.

If a computer today had a modern chip, but ran Windows DOS or Windows 95, it would be laughed at as ludicrously obsolete. But humans are variously running on social 'software' developed in eras ranging from the stone age to medieval times.

All attempts at creating an industrial culture failed and were abandoned after the fall of the Soviet Union and everyone has regressed to stone age, ancient or medieval culture. China is no exception. If we keep running the same stone age to medieval social software, the hardware really doesn't matter. And today industrial culture isn't good enough, we need a culture adapted for the AI age.
 
F

fatzergling

Junior Member
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
China needs not just technological innovation, but social innovation, otherwise the same problems will come back, and at this critical time in humanity's history, which will last for at least 100+ years, a collapse is irrecoverable. There are just fewer and fewer chances.

If a computer today had a modern chip, but ran Windows DOS or Windows 95, it would be laughed at as ludicrously obsolete. But humans are variously running on social 'software' developed in eras ranging from the stone age to medieval times.

All attempts at creating an industrial culture failed and were abandoned after the fall of the Soviet Union and everyone has regressed to stone age, ancient or medieval culture. China is no exception. If we keep running the same stone age to medieval social software, the hardware really doesn't matter. And today industrial culture isn't good enough, we need a culture adapted for the AI age.
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What sort of industrial modern culture do you envision, and how did the US/soviet union deviate from them?
 
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