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Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Stop it. At this time you have been proven wrong and wrong again you are grabbing irrelevant information and changing topics. I proved NATO partners do not control key resources or have bigger economic outputs. I listed resources generated, consumed, industrial output, industrial consumption, and scientific output. You gave the ICT market share. First off, that is still under "service demands are bullshit because they pay more for same shit without growing the economy". Second that is not representative of economy size, a shift of your goal post. Third, giving you benefit of doubt here, let's say ICT is representative of economy, what is there to stop China from updating windows or pirate them? Will the economy be in shambles if denied of the software? The answer is no. Next thing you know you will be saying US has more social media share therefore bigger economy.
Where have I been proven wrong again...? Outside of industrial output (and its proxies, raw material consumption / electricity consumption), there is no metric in which China + partners is equal to NATO + partners.

And even in industrial output, China + partners are barely even with NATO + partners. You realize Japan and South Korea are in that group, yes? And that Russia isn't even in the top 10?

For scientific output, China's share among top quality papers is any where from 23% to 27%, depending on the source. But that is not comparable to the Western alliance. You can look at the raw data here:
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. China is at the top, but the US is a close second, and if you combine the other countries of the Western alliance on the list, they remain dominant.

So yes, China has overtaken the US, but just the US, not the Western alliance - beating the US is not enough and has never been enough.

One example of Kazakhstan not extridate dissidents does not invalidate its close relation with Russia. As a CSTO member they are in military alliance same as NATO equivalent. During the protest Russia deployed military units into the country. That is not something a random third party country allows. Using your logic we may as well remove Hungary out of NATO because they are not 100% on board with Ukraine stuff. Or removing every NATO member who did not donate to Ukraine.

From failure to read simple map size to shifting goal post this is getting embarrassing.

Kazakhstan is in military alliance with Russia? Then what military aid have they sent to Russia? What equipment have they donated, what support have they provided, what sanctions have they violated for the sake of Russia?

Hungary is sympathetic to Russia, sure, and one could argue its membership in the Western alliance is merely symbolic. But it's still doing the minimum warranted by its alliance treaty. By contrast, Kazakhstan hasn't done a thing for Russia.

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Since the outbreak of war in Ukraine, however, many in Russia have regarded Kazakhstan’s actions as being unworthy of an ally. It has adhered to Western sanctions against Russia, and in an appearance at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum in June, in the presence of President Vladimir Putin, Tokayev stated that Kazakhstan would not be recognizing the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk “people’s republics.”

Kazakhstan’s defiant rhetoric has been backed up by action, with Kazakh authorities sending humanitarian aid to Ukraine and maintaining
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with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Russian military propaganda symbols have been
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in public places in Kazakhstan; the May 9 Victory Day parade was
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; and official approval was even given for an
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in Almaty. When Kazakh oil being shipped through Russia ran into unexpected difficulties, therefore, many wondered if this was Russia exacting its revenge.

Kazakhstan is acting more like a NATO partner than a Russian ally, and what's actually embarrassing is you refusing to acknowledge this simple fact - which is that China's partners are incredibly weak, while the Western alliance outside of the US, contrary to popular belief, is quite strong. Japan + South Korea + EU + Canada + Australia + UK are a formidable group in their own right, comparable in nearly every metric to the US. So it's like fighting two United States, which head to head, is impossible even for China.
 
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Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
View attachment 117365
I am bored today so I will entertain you @Eventine . This is major Chinese economic partners vs NATO + American puppets. Notice I did not include African parts under Chinese economic influence. Also notice Ukraine is not included for war may shift its territory size and allegiance.

land size of blue: 33.37

NATO: 24.93 million km²
South Korea: 0.10
Japan: 0.38
Australia: 7.69
New Zealand: 0.27

land size of red: 44.30

China: 9.71
Mongolia: 1.56
CSTO: 20.40
Syria: 0.19
Iran: 1.65
Saudi Arabia: 2.15
North Korea: 0.12
Brazil: 8.52

fun fact: CSTO + China + Mongolia + Iran + North Korea is already above blue at 33.44.
fun fact 2: throwing in Mexico on blue is 35.33 only. However Mexico did not ban Huawei so the ability of US making Mexico to coordinate embargo is questionable.
Since when were Brazil, Saudi Arabia, and CSTO outside of Russia, allies of China? Do you really think any of these countries will join with China in an attack on Taiwan, or will help China if it were attacked by the West? Do you really believe they wouldn't maintain neutrality?

If this is what you believe, it is no wonder you think the Western alliance is weak. But it is a purely delusional form of optimism. I can promise you and you can quote me later on it - none of those countries will help China in a real fight.

The only countries that China can count on - and this is mainly because they are enemies of the West, as much as China is - are Russia, Iran, North Korea, and Syria. Even then there's no alliance treaty between them, the way there is between the US and the members of the Western alliance.

But at least we can trust that Russia, Iran, North Korea, and Syria will join an exclusive, China-led trade order because they are all under massive Western sanctions, and so have no choice. You may be able to add Cuba to that list, for the same reason.

The rest of the countries on your list will claim neutrality in an actual conflict between the Western alliance and China, pretty much guaranteed.
 
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Phead128

Major
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
US warns of 'foreign intelligence threat' to space industry

Screenshot-2023-08-17-at-3.52.54-PM.png
So SpaceX is the modern day East India Company, soon to be private space army to colonize space just like EIC colonized the world.
Does China have private space companies like SpaceX?
 

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
Kazakhstan is in military alliance with Russia? Then what military aid have they sent to Russia? What equipment have they donated, what support have they provided, what sanctions have they violated for the sake of Russia?

Hungary is sympathetic to Russia, sure, and one could argue its membership in the Western alliance is merely symbolic. But it's still doing the minimum warranted by its alliance treaty. By contrast, Kazakhstan hasn't done a thing for Russia.
You ignore that part of my response where i mentioned Arabs can force countries. things does not need to go straight nor countries need to reveal things. There domestic media can create false impressions. Russia has very deep appreciation for even the smallest of Gulf Arab state thats why you see that picture of Bahrani musician.

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1692432119482.png
 
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