Miscellaneous News

Eventine

Senior Member
Registered Member
Japanese nuclearization is absolutely the worst thing that can happen to China. It removes the military option of hitting Japanese mainland off the table. It makes it so the "Japanese issue" will never be solved.

I would consider it a bigger failure of the CCP than Taiwan successfully declaring independence.
Well, Japan acquiring nuclear weapons long-term is inevitable. There's no play that China can do to prevent it short of preemptive war vs. the US, and the Japanese aren't stupid enough to wait until the US is too weak to win that war before pushing for nuclearization. Indeed, Japanese nuclearization is a mile stone in the decline of US hegemony - it means Japan is no longer comfortable relying on the US as the sole provider of its survival, and will be followed by similar moves in South Korea, Australia, the Philippines, etc. The US can't stop this from happening, either, and will inevitably allow it and facilitate it because the alternative - not arming its allies and allowing China to just dominate them - is worse.

While this maybe unfortunate in the context of Chinese nationalist fantasies about occupying Japan and making them pay, preemptive war vs. the US is ultimately not a realistic or plausible option for China. IMO, a regional security framework in the Asia Pacific based on MAD among the major powers is invariably going to emerge in the after math of the US's retreat. If China wishes to take revenge on Japan, it will have to be through crushing it in industry and economics and demographics, not through military conquest.
 

enroger

Senior Member
Registered Member
It’s not lacking, they bribed all they way into the Taiwan presidential security detail.

It’s just that I don’t think they will gain anything from these kinds of operations. Let’s say they did this in Taiwan, then DPP would still be in power and just have more ammo. A pointless exercise.

I saw another person suggest Philippines… that country is so corrupt that they sold out their own former president all on their own. So it would become a never ending bribery cycle with no real benefit. Maybe you can kick out US forces, but the main bulk of forces is in Japan anyway.

I'm not suggesting a copy of this operation. By intelligence operations I mean general fuckeries like blackmail, assassination, media manipulations, funding oppositions, sowing discontent, funding NGOs....etc.

China is clean like a little rabbit in this regard while US is using full range of tools against China's interest.
 

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
Do you think Maduro himself is the government as a whole? The existing regime and central bank is still in place. If they default on existing obligations, they will have a financial crash.

I'm not talking about the loss of money but rather the fact that China has not inkling that the US was going to attack and kidnap Maduro. Otherwise, why would they ask about exposure now, after the fact?

It's more of a lamentation of lack of intelligence gathering from the Chinese side, if this statement is true.
 

tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
Well, Japan acquiring nuclear weapons long-term is inevitable. There's no play that China can do to prevent it short of preemptive war vs. the US, and the Japanese aren't stupid enough to wait until the US is too weak to win that war before pushing for nuclearization. Indeed, Japanese nuclearization is a mile stone in the decline of US hegemony - it means Japan is no longer comfortable relying on the US as the sole provider of its survival, and will be followed by similar moves in South Korea, Australia, the Philippines, etc. The US can't stop this from happening, either, and will inevitably allow it and facilitate it because the alternative - not arming its allies and allowing China to just dominate them - is worse.

While this maybe unfortunate in the context of Chinese nationalist fantasies about occupying Japan and making them pay, preemptive war vs. the US is ultimately not a realistic or plausible option for China. IMO, a regional security framework in the Asia Pacific based on MAD among the major powers is invariably going to emerge in the after math of the US's retreat. If China wishes to take revenge on Japan, it will have to be through crushing it in industry and economics and demographics, not through military conquest.
Ok, so you think US is declining and that decline is going to lead to Japan going for Nukes and if China tries to prevent that with war, then US despite its decline will fight a war with China?

Doesn't make sense. If US supports Japan getting nukes so much that it is willing to go to war over it, then US can just give nukes to Japan no questions asked. No need for Japan to develop anything.

If US doesn't like Japan getting nukes then why would it fight a war for it?

If China is fighting a war to prevent Japan from getting Nukes, then US is staying out. If US is powerful enough to have the will to fight China, then it is powerful enough to stop Japan from getting nukes. So, Japan only gets nukes if US is too weak to fight and thus too weak to stop Japan.

So, both Japan going for Nukes, and US fighting China to save Japan cannot be true at the same time.
 

Phead128

Major
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Well, Japan acquiring nuclear weapons long-term is inevitable. There's no play that China can do to prevent it short of preemptive war vs. the US, and the Japanese aren't stupid enough to wait until the US is too weak to win that war before pushing for nuclearization. Indeed, Japanese nuclearization is a mile stone in the decline of US hegemony - it means Japan is no longer comfortable relying on the US as the sole provider of its survival, and will be followed by similar moves in South Korea, Australia, the Philippines, etc. The US can't stop this from happening, either, and will inevitably allow it and facilitate it because the alternative - not arming its allies and allowing China to just dominate them - is worse.

While this maybe unfortunate in the context of Chinese nationalist fantasies about occupying Japan and making them pay, preemptive war vs. the US is ultimately not a realistic or plausible option for China. IMO, a regional security framework in the Asia Pacific based on MAD among the major powers is invariably going to emerge in the after math of the US's retreat. If China wishes to take revenge on Japan, it will have to be through crushing it in industry and economics and demographics, not through military conquest.

I don't think Japan's economy can survive global sanctions by China, Korea, SE Asia, Europe, and US.

I also don't think US wants China to arm US enemies like Venezuela, Mexico, Cuba, Iran, Canada, Denmark with nuclear weapons, so it will not support arming China's enemies like Japan with nukes. It can backfire on US to support proliferation because China can play the same game too.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Yes, most small countries don't matter much in a ww3 scenario and most will flip back and forth. But there are a few determined anti western countries in the world which soak up a significant amount of attention and military assets from the US. Just look at how many assets they have in west Asia, mostly because of Iran. Take that away and you free up a lot of resources to be used directly against China.

Firstly, the American military assets in the ME are there to protect America’s daddy Israel, not to guard against Iran. If Iran fell into a black hole tomorrow, those American military assets would still be needed due to Israel’s insatiable expansionistic nature, as they would immediately turn their sights to the next neighbour who’s lands they covet and make them the new big bad to justify invading them, taking their land and genociding their people.

Secondly, those American military assets in the ME are not going to be useless to America in the event of a direct war with China. Indeed, a huge factor in America’a wars of choice in the ME was its desire to develop a potential second front against China in the west. Those ambitions have not totally died off, and there is a high chance America will try to push/temp India into opening this second front, in which case it will use CENTCOM will be the key coordinator and facilitator

It might not be in the interest of the people of Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Russia etc to be anti US, but if they're willing to participate in the struggle, it should be supported.

You got it backwards, it’s never been a case of China not being willing to support these countries so much as those countries (with the exception of NK) have basically lacked the will and foresight to properly invest to defend themselves.

There have never been a case where a country has come to China willing to buy Chinese arms at fair market prices and got turned away. The stories that are distorted in the western media are usually where some countries have come to beg for free or massively discounted Chinese weapons and got told to take a hike.

China has been willing to provide all of those countries with enormous and generous financial and trade support, which is what allows them to weather western sanctions. However China draws the line at bankrolling their military aspirations because it knows full well from all the financial aid and trade benefits it gives them that those countries can afford to arm themselves if they so choose. It’s the fact that they choose not to invest in their own defence that’s the core problem.

China doesn’t need a bunch of equivalent of NATO leeches who just want to free ride on a superpower’s military protection. If they want to turn themselves fully into Chinese vassals and allow China to chart their own domestic economic, industrial, diplomatic and cultural policies like the EU is an American sock puppet, then maybe that’s worth China considering it, but otherwise they can go take a hike.

Indeed, many of those same countries goes out of their way to show they have nothing to do with China militarily to appease America, to show that they are not seeking to be part of China’s NATO, so the feeling is very much mutual. And this is where it get hilarious that many of the same liberal cucks who jump up and down now about China’s ‘inaction’ are the same ones who used to jump up and down at any hint of expanded military cooperation between their countries and China. So much so they might as well be part of the CIA’s bot army, which many blatantly are.

This is where the price of America’s move against Maduro might now be paid. Because in the past, a lot of those fence sitting countries and even countries who are already on America’s shitlist think that so long as they don’t get too close to China they won’t draw America’s irk enough to be attacked. So much so many of them actively chose non-Chinese weapons to prove they are not in league with China to America. Now that line of reasoning have been totally shattered you might actually see a surge in sales of Chinese weapons as a lot of those countries might suddenly start to feel incredibly exposed not that their illusions about what will keep them safe from American predation have been shattered.

Venezuela might turn from a distraction of American forces and politics to a success story if sanctions disappear and there's massive oil investments. Making more people around the world wish for an American coup in their country.

That’s an almighty if, and incredibly unlikely to happen in reality because America is loosing the economic contest.

To make Venezuela the fairytale success story you suggest will require enormous, sustained investment from America, who frankly doesn’t have the money. Even if they beg, borrow and steal the funds for such a grand project, it will be suicidal domestically because your average struggling American family one slip away from living on food stamps and on the streets will be outraged that American taxpayers funds are being used to turn Venezuela into a Latina paradise while they struggle with rising prices and stagnant wages and increasing unemployment.

What is far more likely to happen is that either nothing will change substantially and a new figurehead takes over, or American multinationals goes in and starts to strip mine the whole country and the lives of ordinary Venezuelans get worse than ever as their government shuns trade with China to appease their new American overlords, in which case a coup or armed general uprising is all be inevitable. And it they are amenable, China can and will arm them.

This is where China’s long term strategic planning is unparalleled. It doesn’t seek one person or one government as the be all and end all of a nation. Indeed, it’s almost inevitable that if the people in charge are incompetent fools, they will get toppled sooner or later. From a long term strategic POV, is far better that such incompetent incumbents flip to the Americans and you join in the inevitable popular uprising, which will take very little effort to nudge into anti-American as well if America actively supports its puppet in charge, and you get to take over the country in partnership with a new,
vibrant, hungry and wildly popular leadership who now probably hates the Americans more than you. That’s the kind of people who are worthy of Chinese military support. And China has the patience to wait for such allies to emerge rather than tie themselves to the sinking ship of unpopular and incompetent incumbents.
 

han1289

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, Japan acquiring nuclear weapons long-term is inevitable. There's no play that China can do to prevent it short of preemptive war vs. the US, and the Japanese aren't stupid enough to wait until the US is too weak to win that war before pushing for nuclearization. Indeed, Japanese nuclearization is a mile stone in the decline of US hegemony - it means Japan is no longer comfortable relying on the US as the sole provider of its survival, and will be followed by similar moves in South Korea, Australia, the Philippines, etc. The US can't stop this from happening, either, and will inevitably allow it and facilitate it because the alternative - not arming its allies and allowing China to just dominate them - is worse.

While this maybe unfortunate in the context of Chinese nationalist fantasies about occupying Japan and making them pay, preemptive war vs. the US is ultimately not a realistic or plausible option for China. IMO, a regional security framework in the Asia Pacific based on MAD among the major powers is invariably going to emerge in the after math of the US's retreat. If China wishes to take revenge on Japan, it will have to be through crushing it in industry and economics and demographics, not through military conquest.


I don't think it's inevitable. China has plenty of options from economic, political to surgical strikes on Japanese facilities to a full naval blockade. And it's not a given that the US will engage in a full war to protect Japan. It's not even a given US would allow them to acquire nukes, because then the fate of Japan is no longer in American hands.

The real question is whether the Chinese leadership have the determination use these methods and stomach the economic and political costs. I would argue it must, because a MAD scenario involving Japanese nukes sitting 500km off the coast of China is an absolute failure of Chinese policy on every level. It doesn't matter how technologically ahead or wealthy China is, none of that is secure. This is a country that slaughtered 30 million Chinese without remorse, allowing them to have nukes means China has forgotten the past in favour of enriching themselves. Allowing it to happen without taking any military action? Then, the PLA should stick to parades. Good times indeed create weak men.

Inaction here would mean that Xi may have been a competent leader for the past period of development, but not the one to lead China into a turbulent rule of jungle era.
 

henrik

Captain
Registered Member
Well, Japan acquiring nuclear weapons long-term is inevitable. There's no play that China can do to prevent it short of preemptive war vs. the US, and the Japanese aren't stupid enough to wait until the US is too weak to win that war before pushing for nuclearization. Indeed, Japanese nuclearization is a mile stone in the decline of US hegemony - it means Japan is no longer comfortable relying on the US as the sole provider of its survival, and will be followed by similar moves in South Korea, Australia, the Philippines, etc. The US can't stop this from happening, either, and will inevitably allow it and facilitate it because the alternative - not arming its allies and allowing China to just dominate them - is worse.

While this maybe unfortunate in the context of Chinese nationalist fantasies about occupying Japan and making them pay, preemptive war vs. the US is ultimately not a realistic or plausible option for China. IMO, a regional security framework in the Asia Pacific based on MAD among the major powers is invariably going to emerge in the after math of the US's retreat. If China wishes to take revenge on Japan, it will have to be through crushing it in industry and economics and demographics, not through military conquest.

A ban of rare earths exports to Japan will bankrupt the country easily. They will be unable to finance their military.
 

Puss in Boots

Junior Member
Registered Member
In order to safeguard national security and interests and fulfill international obligations such as non-proliferation, in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Export Control Law of the People's Republic of China and the Regulations on Export Control of Dual-Use Items of the People's Republic of China, China has decided to prohibit the export of all dual-use items to Japanese military users, for military purposes, and for any other end-user purposes that contribute to enhancing Japan's military capabilities. Any organization or individual from any country or region that violates the above provisions by transferring or providing relevant dual-use items originating from the People's Republic of China to organizations or individuals in Japan will be held legally liable.
This is exactly what we often say—"since we're already on bad terms, I might as well seize the opportunity to settle old scores."
 
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