Let's talk about the J-8II

It is not about superiority, as already previously stated, it is about revealing capabilities and specific technologies, which, if exported, are at risk of being countered. This is particularly the case with radar systems and anything where the sensor signature of a device is critically important, like submarines.

RedMercury said:

It is not about superiority, as already previously stated, it is about revealing capabilities and specific technologies, which, if exported, are at risk of being countered. This is particularly the case with radar systems and anything where the sensor signature of a device is critically important, like submarines.

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But now Shenyang is trying offload a new 'indigenous' F-8IIM, that uses the Type 1492 PD radar. Is it only now that China is willing to export current use technology like this after several years of use or did Shenyang just drop the ball on a potential export customer? From what seems clear though, the Iranians saw the Type 1492 to some extent and knew that it was something they wanted more than the Phazotron Zhuk-8II. As to why then China would not want to sell the Type 1492 then but now would be willing to do so, and even giving the option of using the JL-10A PD radar used by the J-10 and JH-7A is either a huge policy shift by China or Shenyang is getting very desperate for some successful exports.

Semi-Lobster said:

Given China's reluctance to export the J-8F to Iran, while trying to export the F-8IIM, does this mean China believes the Type 1492 PD radar to be 'superior' to the Phazotron Zhuk-8II PD radar and therefore reluctant to export it or was it merely because Iran did not want to have to deal with the logistics of maintaining aircraft with both Chinese AND Russian equipment? And just how much was Shenyang offering to sell the F-8IIM to the Iranians for?

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China do offer F-8-2 to pakistan and iran, but according to PAF(possible iranian) the airframe is simple to old.
there's report thatPLAAF will retire early production model around 2012.

challenge said:

China do offer F-8-2 to pakistan and iran, but according to PAF(possible iranian) the airframe is simple to old.
there's report thatPLAAF will retire early production model around 2012.

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Indeed, they may be newly built but the original core design is from the 60's, and the redesign is from the 80's, production is bound to end soon although service of the J-8H/F will most likely continue for many years to come given its cost efectiveness compared to similiarly sized aircraft like the Su-27/J-11. From what I read though Iran WANTED the J-8F, currently the most advanced variant of the J-8II series but instead Shenyang repeatedly refused to do so and instead continued to offer the Iranians, who at the time were desperate for a capable and cheap multi-role fighter, the Sino-Russian F-8IIM. Shenyang introduced a new F-8IIM with completely indigenous equipment and the option for more advanced, current gen Chinese radar in 2004, effecitvely making the aircraft the equivalent of the J-8F butof course right arounde that time Chengdu began advertising the JF-17, as a cheap alternative (although I'm still not sure of the price Shenyang sells J/F-8H/Fs at) and interest in the J-8F has pretty much completely dissapeared and most likely never see export unless Shenyang offers some amazing deal to some sort of pariah country that Russians, Americans or Europeans wouldn't be willing to sell to.

Now my question is, the stats of the Type 1492 are unknown but the Phazotron Zhuk-8II have been public for years. Now that Shenyang is advertising the 'new' F-8IIM with such engines, how could there be no press release talking about how great it is compared to the Zhuk-8II?

Zhuk-8II is far too old a radar now. If the Russians hypothetically would reoffer for the F-8IIM, its likely the Zhuk-ME, which has much better range performance and double the tracking and engagement contacts.

The new F-8IIM has an upgraded version of the Type 1471 radar. I think its the radar used before on the J-8H and was replaced by the Type 1492.

J-10 uses the Type 1473 radar, also known as the KLJ-3. Newer ones might be using something else, like KLJ-10.

JL-10A is JH-7A only.

crobato said:

Zhuk-8II is far too old a radar now. If the Russians hypothetically would reoffer for the F-8IIM, its likely the Zhuk-ME, which has much better range performance and double the tracking and engagement contacts.

The new F-8IIM has an upgraded version of the Type 1471 radar. I think its the radar used before on the J-8H and was replaced by the Type 1492.

J-10 uses the Type 1473 radar, also known as the KLJ-3. Newer ones might be using something else, like KLJ-10.

JL-10A is JH-7A only.

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Sinodefence is saying that the new 2004 F-8IIM is offered with either the JL-10A or Type 1492, is this information just old or has Shenyang changed its mind?

From what was displayed back in the last Zhuhai two years ago, the J-8IIM was it was called then, was displayed with the Type 1471 mentioned in the brochure or display board. Its not the JL-10A or the Type 1492.

crobato said:

From what was displayed back in the last Zhuhai two years ago, the J-8IIM was it was called then, was displayed with the Type 1471 mentioned in the brochure or display board. Its not the JL-10A or the Type 1492.

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Ahh, so the information was just incorrect, hopefully they'll fix that! Is the Type 1471 less 'mysterious' than the Type 1492? Do we know of its stats at all from the brochure?

Yes there has been a brochure out of the Type 1471 in Zhuhai. Basically reveals it has a lock on range around 75km, and has quite a number of operating modes, including all the basic ones like VS, TWS, STT, etc,., and a few more like Sea Search, indicating that the radar has already been navalized. In contrast the Zhuk-8II isn't navalized and does not have sea support, though the Zhuk that goes into the MiG-29K should be.

crobato said:

Yes there has been a brochure out of the Type 1471 in Zhuhai. Basically reveals it has a lock on range around 75km, and has quite a number of operating modes, including all the basic ones like VS, TWS, STT, etc,., and a few more like Sea Search, indicating that the radar has already been navalized. In contrast the Zhuk-8II isn't navalized and does not have sea support, though the Zhuk that goes into the MiG-29K should be.

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So we can easily assume that the Type 1492 is 'better' than the Type 1471 in a unspecific, indistinct performance wise kind of way rather than operating mode capabilities as the Type 1471 has a rather comprehensive set. IIRC the Type 1471 is the radar used by the J-8H and the older J-8IIs being upgraded to J-8H standards, with a navalised radar I guess that why it's designated 'Hai' (海 Sea). Speaking of the J-8H, other than being a standard to upgrade existing J-8B and J-8Ds, it had a rather miniscule production run, what was really the point of even formally introducing it? Sure it was an important first step for the J-8II series with look-down/shoot-up and BVR and other such stuff but after only a couple of years was immediately replaced by the superior J-8F.