Ladakh Flash Point

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Xizor

Xizor

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The Mig-21 crash doesn't point to Russian technology's unreliability but rather to shoddy Maintenance and service of Indian Defence Industrial base (does that base even exist?).

All these talk about buying from the "west"- Very grand schemes are being thrown about - buy from France, USA, engines from UK, cooperation with Japan...

Does India have the financial capability to sustain these products, their servicing and other costs?

Case of Rafale - its operating costs (as supplied by Stratpost study) is 17,000 USD per hour.

Absolute lunacy.
I simply can't imagine any country doing this. India isn't Qatar or Saudi Arabia to keep throwing Oil Money at expensive toys and their upkeep.
 
Figaro

Figaro

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zbb said:
I wouldn't give something credibility just because it came from the mouth of a politician, let alone a tweet from some BJP MP. In any case, Modi, the BJP prime minister, has publicly stated that China is not occupying any Indian territory.

Of course, everything depends on what you define as Indian or Chinese "territory". Going by the LAC marked on Google maps, China's current deployments are all on the Chinese side of the LAC.

Note that prior to 2020, China and India had overlapping patrols in many areas. "The LAC" marked on Google maps runs approximately through the midpoints of the regions with overlapping patrols. In spring of 2020, India established posts/camps close to "the LAC" in many areas, cutting off Chinese patrols. China reciprocated shortly after by also establishing posts/camps close to "the LAC" and cutting off Indian patrols. If one defines "losing territory" as losing access to areas that one used to patrol, then one should say that both India and China have "lost territory", which of course would be silly. The reality is that neither India nor China has lost or gained any real territory.
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Are you sure about that? Because 1000 square kilometers of territory was lost according to an Indian RAW intelligence report which got leaked in the summer. It looks like instead of responding to the territory lost with dignity and force, the Indians are now just saying the territory they lost was China's to begin with. I guess this is a win-win for both sides: India still has face while China has territory. 4000 square kilometers of territory may seem shocking but after the events which occurred last summer, it is not so surprising.
 
Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

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Bob Smith said:
That's how much whites love looking at poor non-whites like zoo animals. Anyone with an objective eye can see that the West hates seeing China rise because they can't feel overwhelmingly racially superior.
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Yeah great example of such Westerners are: SerpentZA and Laowhy, those anti-China YouTubers. They hated the new China. Said that this China 'lost its soul'. No more free bribery, drunk driving, open prostitution, drugs, and destitute people to look at. Well, why don't they move to India then? Its the world's biggest democracy, China's enemy, and more importantly have not 'lost its soul' to development and progress.

Many Westerners love to see the third world. They can't get this in their own backyard (until now). There are good ones who are open minded, and do this more as a curiosity and learning experience. Then off course there are those horrible ones who would love to take advantage of the poor 3rd world citizens. These are the types we could observe at red light districts. These would also enjoy looking down on the poor people in 3rd world countries.
 
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S

sinophilia

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localizer said:
But Indians think they're racially superior to Chinese, so where does that leave us on the hierarchy
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I've seen some studies conducted that are pretty shocking.

When rating themselves before a test, people of East Asian (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) descent score lowest in confidence that they did well. I'm sure you can imagine who scores the highest in pre-test confidence.

The results are completely inverse to the confidence measurements. East Asians score by far the highest, those groups that were most confident scored by far the lowest. It's really quite amazing. But while it may look impressive to some that East Asian people are both the most humble and the most skilled/knowledgeable/intelligent, it's also a curse.

The level of humility in East Asian culture is way too much. Not only is it confused for weakness in more primitive cultures, but it also leads to lower self-esteem. I bet if East Asian people were a little more brazen, just a little more risky, that there would be way more innovation than ever happened in European history the last few centuries.

I assume China will get to a level where it is producing more novel science and tech than the rest of the world combined (just my personal opinion), probably by 2050, but I bet it the gap would be even more amazing if Chinese people removed the shackle of 'humility' and 'don't stand out' culture that has existed for so many millennia.

Does anyone know if the CCP is trying hard to promote some kind of radical individualism when it comes purely to innovation and wealth creation a la the Elon Musk's of the world? I believe that as a consequence of China's innate abilities, mixed with the naturally high work ethic of East Asian people, there are likely millions of potential Elon's in China today. They just need to be told it's ok to think like a fucking madman, and it's ok to fail spectacularly.
 
localizer

localizer

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Sardaukar20 said:
Yeah great example of such Westerners are: SerpentZA and Laowhy, those YouTubers. They hated the new China. Said that this China 'lost its soul'. No more free bribery, drunk driving, open prostitution, drugs, and destitute people to look at. Well, why don't they move to India then? Its the world's biggest democracy, China's enemy, and more importantly have not 'lost its soul' to development and progress.

Many Westerners love to see the third world. They can't get this in their own backyard (until now). There are good ones who are open minded, and do this more as a curiosity and learning experience. Then off course there are those horrible ones who would love to take advantage of the poor 3rd world citizens. These are the types we could observe at red light districts. These would also enjoy looking down on the poor people in 3rd world countries.
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sinophilia said:
I've seen some studies conducted that are pretty shocking.

When rating themselves before a test, people of East Asian (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) descent score lowest in confidence that they did well. I'm sure you can imagine who scores the highest in pre-test confidence.

The results are completely inverse to the confidence measurements. East Asians score by far the highest, those groups that were most confident scored by far the lowest. It's really quite amazing. But while it may look impressive to some that East Asian people are both the most humble and the most skilled/knowledgeable/intelligent, it's also a curse.

The level of humility in East Asian culture is way too much. Not only is it confused for weakness in more primitive cultures, but it also leads to lower self-esteem. I bet if East Asian people were a little more brazen, just a little more risky, that there would be way more innovation than ever happened in European history the last few centuries.

I assume China will get to a level where it is producing more novel science and tech than the rest of the world combined (just my personal opinion), probably by 2050, but I bet it the gap would be even more amazing if Chinese people removed the shackle of 'humility' and 'don't stand out' culture that has existed for so many millennia.

Does anyone know if the CCP is trying hard to promote some kind of radical individualism when it comes purely to innovation and wealth creation a la the Elon Musk's of the world? I believe that as a consequence of China's innate abilities, mixed with the naturally high work ethic of East Asian people, there are likely millions of potential Elon's in China today. They just need to be told it's ok to think like a fucking madman, and it's ok to fail spectacularly.
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I'm just sick of all the racism from Indians ever since this Ladakh thing started.


Even animosity from Indians I personally know is more overt. Who knows what they're saying behind my back. It's always about my eyes and penis size.

They shift stances so easily.


I really don't want this to affect my professional life but here we are.
 
S

sinophilia

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localizer said:
I'm just sick of all the racism from Indians ever since this Ladakh thing started.


Even animosity from Indians I personally know is more overt. Who knows what they're saying behind my back. It's always about my eyes and penis size.

They shift stances so easily.
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I wouldn't take it seriously. These people have the biggest inferiority complexes I've ever seen. I once had an Indian friend continuously try to 'serve me' by picking up my food orders at a summer camp I was in in England (way back must have been 2008-2009), while at the same time apparently talking shit behind my back.

I've seen Indian's openly hostile to many Black people in America, more so than any White person would even think to be. Even Mahatma Gandhi, the pride of India, was heavily racist towards Black people when he went to apartheid South Africa.

Don't take their insults personally. They have been colonized by practically every Eurasian group over the last 2,000 years. Did you know the 'Aryans' that invaded India are descendants of the PIE people (proto-Indo-Europeans). Basically even the people who founded India, their culture, religion, traditions, etc. were steppe-herders that looked primarily like Europeans with some East/North Asian genetic component.

It's not even some controversial race science. It has widespread consensus among the scientific community.
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So many succeeding cultures of people after them in the Indian subcontinent were not the direct ancestors of Indians today. The ancestors of modern-day Iranians, Central Asians, Eastern Europeans, North/East Asians, and many others have subjugated them for millennia. They have only had uninterrupted self-rule for the first time since they became Independent from Britain.

They color their existence by the subjugation they feel and have felt. They have been subjugated since their racial-ethnic birth. Not even Africans have been discriminated as long as Indians.
 
Nobonita Barua

Nobonita Barua

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localizer said:
I'm just sick of all the racism from Indians ever since this Ladakh thing started.


Even animosity from Indians I personally know is more overt. Who knows what they're saying behind my back. It's always about my eyes and penis size.

They shift stances so easily.


I really don't want this to affect my professional life but here we are.
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Because you let them talk about you while holding onto "no racist" BS.

When a dog comes to bite you,you need to use your legs to show who is the boss.

Indians dont get into squabble with us, they think we are the racist, & we say we are proud racist . Same thing when we deal with whiteys.
First rule of narrative game, You never let your opponent dictate terms of argument.

You see, i've been onto fake americans so much lately, they are saying they have never met racist azz Bangladeshi like me. :cool::cool:
 
Z

zbb

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Figaro said:
Are you sure about that? Because 1000 square kilometers of territory was lost according to an Indian RAW intelligence report which got leaked in the summer. It looks like instead of responding to the territory lost with dignity and force, the Indians are now just saying the territory they lost was China's to begin with. I guess this is a win-win for both sides: India still has face while China has territory. 4000 square kilometers of territory may seem shocking but after the events which occurred last summer, it is not so surprising.
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I'm quite sure. Here is a map of Indian and Chinese positions around the LAC. Chinese positions are right up to the LAC in the various contested areas but do not go beyond the LAC. The Indian claims of 1000+ square kilometers being seized by China are just plainly ridiculous. China would need to push 4~5 kilometers beyond the LAC across the entire Ladakh frontier to take that much territory.

1806ladakh1new.jpg
 
Figaro

Figaro

Senior Member
Registered Member
zbb said:
I'm quite sure. Here is a map of Indian and Chinese positions around the LAC. Chinese positions are right up to the LAC in the various contested areas but do not go beyond the LAC. The Indian claims of 1000+ square kilometers being seized by China are just plainly ridiculous. China would need to push 4~5 kilometers beyond the LAC across the entire Ladakh frontier to take that much territory.

1806ladakh1new.jpg
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I don't think you can use such a generic map to prove your point lol. Besides the 1000 to 4000 square kilometers of territory lost is coming from Indian sources, not Chinese ones. But as you said, the territory India ceded to China this summer was Chinese to begin with anyway lol.

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