Ladakh Flash Point

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Nobonita Barua

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This is a joke right? So instead of controlling the population or building infrastructure or development of the land it already has... the solution is to throw their population to other countries... or conquer more land... or genocide of 11% of their minority population

Firstly, If this was in the 1600s I might agree but it’s the 21st century... we have technology to overcome these problem nowadays...

Secondly, even these 2 solutions presented are stupid... for immigration angle... it is not the obligation of the host country to accept any immigrants... on this point I am with the US, there is also the consideration of who can immigrate, if the Indians think they can throw a 100 million of their poorest to other countries, then perhaps these ‘think tanks’ need to re-examine the word THINK... otherwise it would just be a brain drain from Indian which doesn’t make this a solution at all!

Thirdly, the second point... open expansionism... with what? Purchased weapons? Considering they can’t even cough up the money to defend what they have already, in the form of drones... what makes these ‘think tanks’ think, even if they have the popular support of the people, that they have the means to do any of this... They can’t even produce the ammo need to fight a war, they can’t even fulfil the most basic of requirements in modern warfare. To even begin thinking of something like this, these people in the ‘think tanks’ need go for a check up ASAP...
Everything these & one more question

11% from which portion of minority?
Considering my personal experience visiting over there, half pant oranges like to pretend that it's minority of other religion that is causing the problems while they can't see eye to eye with another section of their own.
Their ruling class is also "minority".

All the best figuring out the 11% :rolleyes:
 

Bright Sword

Junior Member
Registered Member
It does.
However, political influence or might, of that you have mentioned, have you ever seen a weak civilization as old as the dinosaurs(they are saying it, i am not saying it) taken over a strong one?
Actually yes ! The Romans nearly fell to the Huns and later fell to the Visigoths. The Byzantines fell to the Arabs in Syria and later the Turks in
the 15th Century.
The Hindu kingdom of Sindh was very advanced as a civilization but was defeated by the Arabs.
A civilization to survive has to be advanced militarily and organizationally not merely in economy and culture.
Europeans colonized the world because their scientific knowledge far surpassed the others. You can't fight bullet with sword.
.
The Europeans lost in China and at one time for 100 years they had all the bullets.
Simple migration & setting up colonies are per-civilization era idea.
If you look at Dubai it is significantly controlled by an expat Hindu business and labor population. Russian immigration and settlement in Kazakhastan has a significant influence in the country.We must not forget Israel where a military backed enforced settlement and local population displacement can create a powerful state.
Besides, you forgot the biggest difference between mongols & indians.
The biggest difference I see is that the Mongols like the Japanese, and Nazis were willing to die for their conquests. Don't know about Indians.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Everything these & one more question

11% from which portion of minority?
Considering my personal experience visiting over there, half pant oranges like to pretend that it's minority of other religion that is causing the problems while they can't see eye to eye with another section of their own.
Their ruling class is also "minority".

All the best figuring out the 11% :rolleyes:
Honestly... many people have been saying this for decades, if the Indians have the political will to simply build up their national infrastructure, not just the populated/large cities, which will provide job and wealth for people, then push for basic industries producing the necessities where people now with more money in hand can now spend on... with their enormous population it would only be a matter of time before they become a success story but alas... they have idiots in think tanks proposing idiot solutions... sigh...
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
You are saying china has different reasons for acting against India/USA than India/USA has against China.
A US hawk will say US has different reasons for acting China than China has against USA.
A India Hawk will say India has different reasons for acting China than China has against India.

You can be the one who is right among them but all of you have the same motivation : try to convince that you are right.
It is for this reason that this thread is filled with messages saying how right China is and how India is wrong. In a indian forum, it will be the opposite
That's not my motivation. China's goal is achieved through its own power, not by convincing other people that it is nice. This similarity that you found is pointless and once again, an oversimplification.

The argument is as simple and succinct as this: you contended that China's anti-Indian motivations are the same as America's anti-China motivations, and I said you are wrong and flattering India on that account. America's motivations are fear of China's growth while China's motivations are anger that India continues to provoke China. China has absolutely no fear of India's development as it is perpetually slow and encumbered in every area, mostly by irreconcilable differences in its society. If you had said that China and India are basically the same in that they each accuse the other of provocations and that their views are counterbalanced, I could see it. But China definitely does not view India the same way that America views China.

That's the entire argument. It's confined to that. Don't bring in rambling digressions to take it away from this point.
 

Bright Sword

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is a joke right? So instead of controlling the population or building infrastructure or development of the land it already has... the solution is to throw their population to other countries... or conquer more land... or genocide of 11% of their minority population

Firstly, If this was in the 1600s I might agree but it’s the 21st century... we have technology to overcome these problem nowadays...

Secondly, even these 2 solutions presented are stupid... for immigration angle... it is not the obligation of the host country to accept any immigrants... on this point I am with the US, there is also the consideration of who can immigrate, if the Indians think they can throw a 100 million of their poorest to other countries, then perhaps these ‘think tanks’ need to re-examine the word THINK... otherwise it would just be a brain drain from Indian which doesn’t make this a solution at all!

Thirdly, the second point... open expansionism... with what? Purchased weapons? Considering they can’t even cough up the money to defend what they have already, in the form of drones... what makes these ‘think tanks’ think, even if they have the popular support of the people, that they have the means to do any of this... They can’t even produce the ammo need to fight a war, they can’t even fulfil the most basic of requirements in modern warfare. To even begin thinking of something like this, these people in the ‘think tanks’ need go for a check up ASAP...
Correct! It sounds like a joke and we hope it is.
Logic and intelligence are in short supply in India today.
India is no China, Singapore, or Korea to use technology and make best use of its resources for the betterment of its people. It is riven with corruption, class. caste, and religion conflicts.
The only way the ruling clique can continue in power is through cruelty on its own population, and a perpetual external conflict. Religious obscurantism which is the now the foundation of the ruling establishment is a depressingly effective diversion. It is also a motivation of war.
 

Nobonita Barua

Senior Member
Registered Member
Actually yes
Actually no.

The Romans nearly fell to the Huns and later fell to the Visigoths. The Byzantines fell to the Arabs in Syria and later the Turks in
the 15th Century.
The Hindu kingdom of Sindh was very advanced as a civilization but was defeated by the Arabs.
A civilization to survive has to be advanced militarily and organizationally not merely in economy and culture.
.
The Europeans lost in China and at one time for 100 years they had all the bullets.
Ya.
We don't need to get that far.
US lost to talibans despite having 5th generation stealth fighters. Been 2 decades in Iraq. A bit too long for their own liking.

Both of us can turn & twist the reasoning to suit our narratives that will lead to nowhere.
Human consider them to be advanced, yet the ancient billions of years of old planet call earth revolutes at least 3.5 times faster than fastest thing advanced human race produced till date. This is an strange universe full of wisdom.


The Hindu kingdom of Sindh was very advanced as a civilization but was defeated by the Arabs.
Advanced in what? Indians still fetishize about being better swordsman( i am being serious) than japanese samurai in era of AI when they couldn't do it thousands of years ago in iron age.

The Europeans lost in China and at one time for 100 years they had all the bullets.
Yep. If only they could get through Himalaya from the other side where they came, they could have brought enough bullets with them.
This is same exact reason why after WW2, only US infrastructure left standing.

If you look at Dubai it is significantly controlled by an expat Hindu business and labor population.
Ya.
I have a factory where all of the workers are indians. They can go to strike & leverage the threat of loss for their own profit.
However, i am still the owner & provider.
Indians have been trying to leverage their "huge IT industry potential" threat everywhere. That's why they have never been able to present themselves as strategic threat.


A civilization to survive has to be advanced militarily and organizationally not merely in economy and culture.
Absolutely correct.

Here is the contradiction in your statement. You started the conversation saying someone leveraging the "migrant power" to set up lobby that can influence government.

1. If your argument is - A civilization to survive has to be advanced militarily and organizationally not merely in economy and culture.
Then - You can't do it through lobbying. You do lobbying to a much greater power for assistance. Indian lobby power extends only to whining about their neighbors on the other side not to sell F16s.
Being advanced militarily & organizationally =/= well organized in lobbying.

It's a mathematical impossibility.

2. If your argument is that, there are incidents that migrant powers resulted into much bigger power, You need advanced tactics & organization for that well in advance.
Here the numbers of manpower & superior tactics offset the advantage your opponent can have in other way.. Turks who defeated Byzantine resulted into ottoman empire.
Arabs who defeated eastern empires ruled half of the world, probably one of those empires who came closer to British empire.

You can't take parts of two completely different scenario which are fundamentally different from each other & then mishmash them to create a third fantasy scenario.

You can point to Israel. You need to understand something, Israel acknowledges their weakness & has been backed by much bigger powers throughout. India is of 1.3 billion, if they want to be Israel they have to bow before someone else first.

There is a reason why India/ or it's previous existential references has never been able to win conflict of their own. Just because the reason you have mentioned. They are good at lobbying.


This is going way off topic. I think it would be better to avoid discussing indian non-existent fantasy scenarios which will keep going off topic.
Trust me, we have heard fair share of those.
Determining probable scenarios based on fantasy is an impossibility.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Correct! It sounds like a joke and we hope it is.
Logic and intelligence are in short supply in India today.
India is no China, Singapore, or Korea to use technology and make best use of its resources for the betterment of its people. It is riven with corruption, class. caste, and religion conflicts.
The only way the ruling clique can continue in power is through cruelty on its own population, and a perpetual external conflict. Religious obscurantism which is the now the foundation of the ruling establishment is a depressingly effective diversion. It is also a motivation of war.
I can certainly understand that it’s a motivation for war... but that’s provided that there is the capability and capacity for war... modern warfare is as much a measure of productivity as it is for superior technology or superior strategy and tactics...

There is only so much a war machine can do with ideology alone... this may not be a popular opinion but if the US didn’t have to care about the public opinion at home... I don’t see them losing in Vietnam or in Afghanistan.

With the way India is atm they have no way for them to fight a prolonged modern war at all... they don’t have the production to sustain such a war, they certainly don’t have superior technology and the from what can be seen neither strategic or tactical thinking... and I don’t think their ideology can be anywhere near as potent as the radicalisation of Islam... as least I believe before such extreme radicalisation take hold or emerges, India would have already fractured into smaller states.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just the same boring narrative from China side because India also say they want to settle the border issue but China not really interested...
At the end of the day, you got to look at what they do and not what they say. By its actions, China settled all land borders except with India. India is having disputes with all its neighbors, Pakistan, Nepal. It interferes with Bangladesh, completely controls Bhutan. On China's side, even when North Korea changed its tunes after the current leader came into power, they work with him while he tried to get closer to the West. They were able to eventually convince him to fall back to the orbit of China. They did this with incentives, not heavy handed meddling.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
1. The Mongols were decisively defeated by Allaudin Khilji in the late 13th century and early 14th century ( Battle of Kili onwards). This was one of the only two defeats the Mongols suffered globally ( the other at the hands of the Mamelukes in 1260) Read about the Khilji general Zafar Khan and Malik Kafur.

.. you think I'm unaware of the Chagatais later on and of Ain Jalut? It has no effect on the point I made.

2. Mughals came to India 150 years later in the 16th century. Even though Mughals were descendants of Mongol converts their origins were in Central Asia ( Uzbekistan) where they had settled for generations. They were not from Ulan Bator in Mongolia.

... again, do you think I'm unaware of the timeline and/or the mixing of the ethnicities of later descendants of Mongols?

What is this need you have to try and lecture me on my own history?
 
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