JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[ougoah]

How accommodating China is in this area depends on how much confidential information get exposed to risk of leaking or exploited somehow. Just like western platforms when it comes to fitting out with foreign components. Taiwan's Lafayette - France was accommodating, India's MKI - Russia was accommodating, Turkey's F-35... not so much. There are reasons for this sort of spread and when it comes to JF-17 and Turkish equipment, well I don't think AVIC and PLA care because they don't depend on the JF-17, it isn't cutting edge and doesn't feature any cutting edge equipment by Chinese or NATO standards. Sorry but a small air cooled AESA and some wide HUD and MAWs isn't exactly F-35 level of technological secrecy. Giving Turkey and Pakistan full access to do as they please (since it's honestly more of a Pakistani fighter than it is Chinese) is to be expected.

Can China afford to be accommodating? It depends on what exactly it is exporting and the specifics of what foreign equipment are installed and how much information is offered up by doing so. Turkish pods and EW suite (if the latter is even true) are fine with AVIC and PLA. Why would they be against such a thing? We're not talking about a J-20 or even a J-10 here. When it comes to AZM, I suspect AVIC will take issue with cooperating and revealing sensitive information especially if PLA is a customer. If that happens, I doubt very much Pakistan will even be offered a J-35. Any cooperation between China and Turkey on this level of defence should not be compared with economic or lower level defence partnerships.

 

[Xizor]

I keep seeing emphatic comments in other forums saying that the JF-17 is featuring a HUD ( Aurora EHUD-2) that is more advanced than that on the J20s. Wouldn't China keep the latest and greatest for itself? Is there any relevance/truth/substance to this? Is the HUD really more advanced than what is present on Chinese 4th gens? Export models maybe ?
Would like somebody with knowledge on this to make things clear.

 

[Biscuits]

I keep seeing emphatic comments in other forums saying that the JF-17 is featuring a HUD ( Aurora EHUD-2) that is more advanced than that on the J20s. Wouldn't China keep the latest and greatest for itself? Is there any relevance/truth/substance to this? Is the HUD really more advanced than what is present on Chinese 4th gens? Export models maybe ?
Would like somebody with knowledge on this to make things clear.

It is impossible because the government doesn't authorise export equipment unless its significantly behind the latest developments

 

[Brumby]

I forgot how tiresome dealing with your pedantry is; thank you for reminding me, really. I didn't claim that Pakistan is not living up to the terms of the deals it signed with China, I'm sure Pakistan is living up to them. What I do claim is that those terms themselves were drafted when China was in a weaker position relative to the position it's in now, and any new deals should have terms barring Pakistan from introducing third-party suppliers into Project Azm. You know, just like the deals America has with its "allies" about introducing outside parties like Russia or China into the F-35 program. America even prohibits them from purchasing Russian equipment that has nothing to do with what America supplies - a provision Turkey ironically ran afoul of by purchasing the S-400. Even I don't want China to go as far as prohibiting Pakistan from buying systems from Turkey or America or whomever else, just no mixing with Chinese systems.

All of the stuff that you are talking about in your reply has nothing to do with the question I raised with you in an earlier post.
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-483#post-583169about

If you are unable or unwilling to address that question then don't bother or else you are wasting both of our time.

 

[Brumby]

Oh I see, are you suggesting that because the posts were made on the same day that Siege and By78 were suggesting that their pictures of the AESA were related to Block III, or that the PAF had chosen it for Block III?

They made their posts before the new pictures of Block III were released, and if you actually look at the chronology of the posts on page 477 and 478, you will see that those posts were all talking about the new pictures of the dual seat JF-17B that were released as well as the prospect of JF-17 Block II possibly getting an AESA upgrade.
The new pics of the JF-17 Block III were only posted on page 479.

Unfortunately I think you may have gotten your chronology mixed up, because at that point in the thread the pictures of JF-17 Block III weren't even posted yet. I can see how you might have interpreted those posts as being associated with JF-17 Block III, but they were posted before the new pics emerged in the last 24 hours, and if you read the actual sequence of the posts made you would've seen that they were not made in context of Block III specific discussion either.

The following is the timeline :
Post #4746 Deino commenting about a Block 3 maiden flight
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-475#post-581296

Subsequently posts #4747,4749-4760 (14 posts) were discussing about Block 3 maiden flight

Then Seige posted the picture (post #4766).

 

[Xizor]

It is impossible because the government doesn't authorise export equipment unless its significantly behind the latest developments

That is the norm. I get that. But is there a chance that the government opted to give a waiver for the JF-17 as there is great export potential for this fighter ? Maybe the inclusion of these HUDs might compel potential buyers to consider the JF-17 as a "Non-West F-16". Just wondering if that is the case.

 

[kickars]

That is the norm. I get that. But is there a chance that the government opted to give a waiver for the JF-17 as there is great export potential for this fighter ? Maybe the inclusion of these HUDs might compel potential buyers to consider the JF-17 as a "Non-West F-16". Just wondering if that is the case.

I’d say no. Because I’m pretty certain for China as least now it’s national security weights far more than military hardware export cash. Of cause your logic would definitely work on most western European countries if the US does give them any export pressure.

 

[by78]

Aurora HUD. Likely installed on Block-III.

Commemorative coin for Block-III.

 

[by78]

Jf-17 near a hornet's nest.

(1911 × 802)

 

[Biscuits]

That is the norm. I get that. But is there a chance that the government opted to give a waiver for the JF-17 as there is great export potential for this fighter ? Maybe the inclusion of these HUDs might compel potential buyers to consider the JF-17 as a "Non-West F-16". Just wondering if that is the case.

Unlikely because the J-10 export variant does that and more