JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[zoom]

Haven't we moved past the point where we take posts by challenge seriously?

Don't be so harsh,maybe he gets over-enthusiastic at times when the more experienced and knowledgeable members like yourself need to step in.Think of him as your kid brother whom you need to rein in from time to time.

 

[challenge]

Haven't we moved past the point where we take posts by challenge seriously?

do I lied to you when I posted the picture of Z-9W,proving the existence of the helos back in 2001?
most of info in fact come from this website,some are 6~5 years old.
I am surprise you do not remember it.

 

[Lion]

do I lied to you when I posted the picture of Z-9W,proving the existence of the helos back in 2001?
most of info in fact come from this website,some are 6~5 years old.
I am surprise you do not remember it.

I remember you bad mouth and lied abt JH-7A engine being inferior and PLAAF personnel unsatisfy abt it. Don't you remember? Or you want me to dig out the link?

 

[Lion]

Actually, if you paid attention to the buzz at Chinese military forum, it IS a common sentiment that the Pakistani demonstration team appeared to be more daring and bold than the J-10 demonstration team, which was described as being quite conservative, so it's certainly corroborated.

The fact that Pakistan probably has the best pilots in the entire Islamic World by a fairly wide margin is also not really in doubt... mind you, considering the way the Arabs train that is not really a surprise.

Also in the context of the discussion Western 'subsystems' make sense for interface with the Erieye. Integrating the Chinese avionics from the ground up with a completely different system is probably a huge pain though I am not quite sure how system integration w/ Western subsystems is going to work. Anyway it's fairly obvious in context that they are not talking big ticket items like the radar, but probably something like datalink.

While I am still skeptical about quite a bit of it, I'll have to say this is actually quite a cut above the usual Challenge fare in terms of credibility. If nothing else, it's a carefully cobbled together piece mixing some recently known information (On the PL-12/SD-10A, J-20, FT-6 for instance) carefully with misinformation.

Western subsystem for J-10B probably will be available for export set for PAF.
I doubt PLAAF version will have any western set and probably will be kept out from PAF personnel sight.

As for the J-10 demo. Their main focus this time is team flight formation , not individual performance. PAF JF-17 has no team formation to do, of cos they must do their best for the individual flight. It is understandable the J-10 individual performance shall not be more impressive than their flight formation...

 

[challenge]

I remember you bad mouth and lied abt JH-7A engine being inferior and PLAAF personnel unsatisfy abt it. Don't you remember? Or you want me to dig out the link?

spey engine was early 60's technology,a decade ago, article appear in Chinese website,Xian aicraft co. written likely engineers agree while WS-9 (roll royce spey)engine still good, but not good enough,technology developed for for WP-14 and WS-10 were incorporate into WS-9.

 

[Troika]

Western subsystem for J-10B probably will be available for export set for PAF.
I doubt PLAAF version will have any western set and probably will be kept out from PAF personnel sight.

Which was what that interview claimed, that it was mainly for Erieye integration.

As for the J-10 demo. Their main focus this time is team flight formation , not individual performance. PAF JF-17 has no team formation to do, of cos they must do their best for the individual flight. It is understandable the J-10 individual performance shall not be more impressive than their flight formation...

... which was exactly what that interview claimed. That JF-17 impressed.

Anyway, like I said, that Chinese pilots appear more conservative is hardly a Pakistani-only complaint. There may be all sorts of reason why this is so, but at the end of the day, it is so.

 

[Lion]

spey engine was early 60's technology,a decade ago, article appear in Chinese website,Xian aicraft co. written likely engineers agree while WS-9 (roll royce spey)engine still good, but not good enough,technology developed for for WP-14 and WS-10 were incorporate into WS-9.

That is not what you say. You say the main designer is not satisfy with WS-9 and they are looking at alternative of French engine.

In fact, the designer claim they are satisfy with upgraded WS-9 and no need to look for the overseas alternative. If you are still denying, I can dig up the link and let everybody know what kind of person you are. Mr Richard.

 

[Lion]

... which was exactly what that interview claimed. That JF-17 impressed.

Anyway, like I said, that Chinese pilots appear more conservative is hardly a Pakistani-only complaint. There may be all sorts of reason why this is so, but at the end of the day, it is so.

It is uncalled for PAF pilot to have quick conclusion and say PLAAF pilot not able to fly their own plane just becos of some air show performance...

I remember last 2years airshow J-10 pull very hard and make some high G flight. This year emphasize is on flight formation and not individual performances for J-10.

Shall I say, PAF is not able to make any plane and need to beg Chinese to make one for them. If Pakistan think they are so good. We Chinese are happy to stop working with them. We can do things on our own.

 

[Troika]

It is uncalled for PAF pilot to have quick conclusion and say PLAAF pilot not able to fly their own plane just becos of some air show performance...

I remember last 2years airshow J-10 pull very hard and make some high G flight. This year emphasize is on flight formation and not individual performances for J-10.

Shall I say, PAF is not able to make any plane and need to beg Chinese to make one for them. If Pakistan think they are so good. We Chinese are happy to stop working with them. We can do things on our own.

And you'll do well to treat pretty much the only friend you have in the entire world better and refrain from words like 'beg' and cheap insinuations.

It's such words and attitudes that makes the Chinese nation so universally admired and loved in its neighbourhood.

Anyway, stop slinging these cheap shots, considering how much China had to beg and steal from Russia before she begins to do things on their own, it smacks of chucking bricks in glass houses.

Anyway, let's look at the goddam quote again before getting all prickly:

Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.

In comparison, the JF-17s did much better. Hannan describes the Chinese crowd as going “wild” with the Thunder’s repeated tight turns, without a single one off-target from the venue.

Hannan's comments are all pretty fair and factual. Notice he mostly stated facts, the one comment that can be taken amiss was a quote reported from a Sherdil pilot. You know, demonstration team pilots, that happy class of men well known for their humility and repose, even amongst fighter pilots, who are known far and wide for their becoming and self-effacing modesty, blushing violets to a man.

And you know this, and yet somehow you generalised that to the whole PAF. Something is uncalled for, all right, and it's not just from the Sherdil pilot.

 

[tphuang]

do I lied to you when I posted the picture of Z-9W,proving the existence of the helos back in 2001?
most of info in fact come from this website,some are 6~5 years old.
I am surprise you do not remember it.

this forum doesn't go back to 2001. Majority of things you post are from wforums, which is junk.

Which was what that interview claimed, that it was mainly for Erieye integration.

... which was exactly what that interview claimed. That JF-17 impressed.

Anyway, like I said, that Chinese pilots appear more conservative is hardly a Pakistani-only complaint. There may be all sorts of reason why this is so, but at the end of the day, it is so.

I have no clue where you got your sources. I can tell you that I frequent Chinese forums on daily basis and have not seen any reports of PAF massively wowing the crowd. That's not to say that it didn't happen, but I have no clue where you got your sources from.

And you'll do well to treat pretty much the only friend you have in the entire world better and refrain from words like 'beg' and cheap insinuations.

do you want me to list the list of nations that are friends with China.

It's such words and attitudes that makes the Chinese nation so universally admired and loved in its neighbourhood.

China has good relations with much of the south east asia actually. Thailand, Phillipines, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia. You seem to have bitter feelings toward that. I wonder why.

Anyway, stop slinging these cheap shots, considering how much China had to beg and steal from Russia before she begins to do things on their own, it smacks of chucking bricks in glass houses.

Anyway, let's look at the goddam quote again before getting all prickly:

China has a lot to thankful toward the Russians. Without the Russians, China would not have anywhere near the military industrial complex it has right now. China took what it could from the Russians and the Russians also gained from being kept afloat during that time. Now, if you start using words like steal, then we can have a discussion about that. I never get tired of such discussions.

But let's just say that China no longer needs Russia. Several of its military projects will suffer delays without Russian help, but nothing will get crippled. On the other hand, it seems like Chinese-Pakistanis cooperation only seem to get stronger now that Chinese military hardware is finally up to par.

Hannan's comments are all pretty fair and factual. Notice he mostly stated facts, the one comment that can be taken amiss was a quote reported from a Sherdil pilot. You know, demonstration team pilots, that happy class of men well known for their humility and repose, even amongst fighter pilots, who are known far and wide for their becoming and self-effacing modesty, blushing violets to a man.

And you know this, and yet somehow you generalised that to the whole PAF. Something is uncalled for, all right, and it's not just from the Sherdil pilot.

We don't know that he is stating fact. He apparently wrote a lot of stuff that are music to the ears of Pakistani posters and they have accepted these stuff as truth. All I know is that he is some dude that posts on pakdef.


btw, I do realize that this kind of topic could turn into a heated arguments between Pakistani and Chinese posters. So, just that you guys know, try to keep it calm. Let's just say JF-17 thread has been forced to be locked many times before.