Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Radar

Status
Not open for further replies.

MwRYum

Major
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

So you agree with you me that boots on the ground is the best way to demonstrate sovereignty?

What else can it be? And the only avenue to get there is through a war against Japan - with Japan being decisively and crushingly defeated. Only then China can advance to this stage.

The path to that goal is one that's paved by blood and corpses, not with spats and papers. Anyone who expect a peaceful resolution between China and Japan is nothing short of horribly delusional.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

What else can it be? And the only avenue to get there is through a war against Japan - with Japan being decisively and crushingly defeated. Only then China can advance to this stage.

The path to that goal is one that's paved by blood and corpses, not with spats and papers. Anyone who expect a peaceful resolution between China and Japan is nothing short of horribly delusional.

Unless both parties want to submit to UN and ICC arbitration of the matter...

A shooting war over the islands is EXTREMELY unlikely. The presence of the large US Military force on nearby Okinawa is a major calming influence on the area as the Americans do not want a shooting war on the doorstep of one of their military bases.
 

ahadicow

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Americans do not want a shooting war on the doorstep of one of their military bases.

wondering what give you that impression. It rather save them the trouble of creating a pretext.
 
Last edited:

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

wondering what give you that impression. It rather save them the trouble of creating a pretext.

The Americans aren't stupid. They are not interested in getting into a war that does not serve their interests. And the Americans have no interest in provoking a conflict in the region.

The issue is primarily an issue over natural resources. Both fishing rights and access to oil and gas are paramount for Japan and China. For Japan, access to oil is of paramount importance, due to Japanese dependence on energy imports from areas like the Persian Gulf, due to Japan's lack of energy deposits. Japanese access to the energy deposits around the islands will help make significant steps in helping Japan become more independent from foreign supplies of energy, and provide the Japanese with some energy security.

For People's Republic of China, access to the energy deposits found here will help feed the burgeoning demand for crude oil that continues to grow since the 1990's, and provide energy security for China, if Chinese sovereignty can be established on the islands, which is especially important with the current security situation in the Middle East, which is causing concern for everyone with energy security in the region.

The issue of national pride, and irredentalism is a secondary issue that is primarily emotional. The Chinese have some strong emotional grievances against the Japanese that were never fully resolved. These emotional grievances must be tempered and calmed down by the Chinese otherwise it will further add to the suspicion by the West that the Chinese are up to no good as normal. It is a vested interest that the Chinese want to be viewed as a responsible nation, and responsible nations don't go to war over emotions.
 

MwRYum

Major
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

The Americans aren't stupid. They are not interested in getting into a war that does not serve their interests. And the Americans have no interest in provoking a conflict in the region.

The issue is primarily an issue over natural resources. Both fishing rights and access to oil and gas are paramount for Japan and China. For Japan, access to oil is of paramount importance, due to Japanese dependence on energy imports from areas like the Persian Gulf, due to Japan's lack of energy deposits. Japanese access to the energy deposits around the islands will help make significant steps in helping Japan become more independent from foreign supplies of energy, and provide the Japanese with some energy security.

For People's Republic of China, access to the energy deposits found here will help feed the burgeoning demand for crude oil that continues to grow since the 1990's, and provide energy security for China, if Chinese sovereignty can be established on the islands, which is especially important with the current security situation in the Middle East, which is causing concern for everyone with energy security in the region.

The issue of national pride, and irredentalism is a secondary issue that is primarily emotional. The Chinese have some strong emotional grievances against the Japanese that were never fully resolved. These emotional grievances must be tempered and calmed down by the Chinese otherwise it will further add to the suspicion by the West that the Chinese are up to no good as normal. It is a vested interest that the Chinese want to be viewed as a responsible nation, and responsible nations don't go to war over emotions.

Asking just China to curtail their nationalism would not work, whether it's "fair" or not that's even more secondary, not especially when Japan is screwing China at every opportunity. It'd only enrage Chinese population so much the legitimacy of the CPC would be threaten if Beijing thumb it down like you suggested. Mind you, Chinese have their fair share of xenophobic terms for all foreigners, but above all those that directed at the Japanese were uttered with the most hateful passion...that tell you how bad things are. If the Japanese don't do their part, don't expect the Chinese do anything.

The situation is that by now there can be no win-win outcome achievable, unless something most impossible happened and force the two nations into an alliance to survive...but that's about as possible as the sun would rise from the west.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

The issue of national pride, and irredentalism is a secondary issue that is primarily emotional. The Chinese have some strong emotional grievances against the Japanese that were never fully resolved. These emotional grievances must be tempered and calmed down by the Chinese otherwise it will further add to the suspicion by the West that the Chinese are up to no good as normal. It is a vested interest that the Chinese want to be viewed as a responsible nation, and responsible nations don't go to war over emotions.

which would be very difficult.. because human beings are irrational creatures.. throughout the course of history mankind have govern and acted based just as much on his emotions as they are based on survivability or tangible facts.

Just a couple of examples on the US side would be WWII or even the space race. I think it is no secret that Pearl Harbor was the catalyst which push the entire US into the war. It was as much an emotional response as it was a rational one. Same with the space race. Ego and national pride was just as big a motivator as anything else.

Like you said I hope the Chinese look at this in a practical and calm manner and act appropriately otherwise they will be exploited and will most definitely look like the bad guys in front of the world regardless of what the truth is. Perception is everything. Actions that are primarily driven by emotions almost almost ends up badly wheater it's on an individual level or corporate.
 
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

More Tools for CMS and double the endrance of the y-12.



Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


China gets maritime recon boost with MA60 MPA production
By Robert Foster
2/27/2013
The X'ian Aircraft Corporation MA60 maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) is now in production, an official from the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Co (CATIC) told IHS Jane's at the recent IDEX exhibition in Abu Dhabi: a development that raises the prospect of China being able to further increase its aerial military-diplomatic pressure on Japan over disputed territories in the East China Sea.

CATIC officials said that the MA60 MPA is scheduled for Chinese coastguard organisations such as the China Maritime Surveillance (CMS) agency, which has been at the forefront of Beijing's response to perceived infringements on its territorial sovereignty. A twin-turboprop powered X'ian Y-12 belonging to the CMS flew over the disputed Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands in December 2012, one of a number of incidents that led to fighter aircraft from both countries being scrambled to the area.

Once operational, the MA60, which like the Y-12 is unarmed, will provide the CMS with a greater range. With a 10-hour endurance, it is double that of the Y-12.

First seen in model form at the November 2011 Dubai Airshow, the MA60 MPA is derived from X'ian's MA60 civil airliner.
 

ahadicow

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

The Americans aren't stupid. They are not interested in getting into a war that does not serve their interests. And the Americans have no interest in provoking a conflict in the region.

Yes, because that's exactly why they set up military bases at "doorsteps" of other countries, right? because they want NO involvement whatsoever in any regional conflicts.

As for the "american interest". I think you would have to define the term a little better. If by "american interest" you mean the interest of american people, then I totally agree that there is no such interest in provoking the conflict. But there was also no interest for american people in the Iraq War, in War in Afganistan, or any wars that US manage to involve itself in after WW2. So I am not sure the interest of american people is a good indication of whether US would start a war or not.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
Abe cites Thatcher reflections on Falklands war

(Reuters) - Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, whose country is embroiled in a row with China over tiny islands, on Thursday quoted former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's reflections on the 1982 Falklands war with Argentina to stress the importance of the rule of law at sea.

"Our national interests have been immutable. They lie in making the seas, which are the foundation of our nation's existence, completely open, free and peaceful," Abe said in a wide-ranging policy speech to parliament in which he also urged Japan to seek to become "No.1" as an economic power.

Abe went on to quote a remark from Thatcher's memoirs, reflecting on the Falklands war, in which she said Britain was defending the fundamental principle that international law should prevail over the use of force.

The war over the remote South Atlantic archipelago began when Argentine troops landed on the Falkland islands on April 2, 1982, and ended 74 days later with their surrender. The conflict killed about 650 Argentine and 255 British troops.

Continuing in his own words, Abe said: "The rule of law at sea. I want to appeal to international society that in modern times changes to the status quo by the use of force will justify nothing."

Tokyo's ties with Beijing chilled sharply after the Japanese government last September bought the rocky islands in the East China Sea, which are controlled by Japan but also claimed by China, from a private owner, sparking violent protests in China.

A flare-up in tensions in the territorial row has raised fears of an unintended military incident near the islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China.

The United States says the islets fall under a U.S.-Japan security pact, but Washington is keen to avoid a clash in the economically vital region.

Japanese fighter jets scrambled again on Thursday after a Chinese twin-engine turboprop Y-12 aircraft came within about 100 km (62 miles) of what Tokyo considers its airspace over the islands, the defense ministry said. Three Chinese patrol ships briefly entered the disputed waters, the Japan Coast Guard said.

The hawkish Abe, who took office in December after his conservative party's big election win, reiterated in his speech that the islands are Japanese territory, and urged Beijing not to escalate tensions.

He added, however, that Sino-Japanese relations were vital for Japan and said his door was always open to dialogue.

China hit back, saying Beijing did not want to see a maritime incident but accused Japanese leaders of making provocative remarks "from time to time" and playing up the China threat to provoke a military confrontation.

"At the moment, Japan should regulate its own words and deeds, stop issuing erroneous statements, properly handle the Diaoyu islands and other issues, and take practical measures to create conditions for the improvement of bilateral relations," Chinese Defense Ministry spokesman Geng Yansheng told a news conference.

Abe stressed the importance of the U.S.-Japan security alliance days after his summit with President Barack Obama.

Calling the U.S. alliance the axis of Japan's diplomacy and security policies, Abe said: "It is only logical that, in the open oceans, the United States, which is the world's largest marine state, and Japan, Asia's largest maritime democracy, form a partnership, and to fortify this constantly is necessary."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top