J-35A fighter (PLAAF) + FC-31 thread

latenlazy

Brigadier
After you solve initial production hell, there's nothing terribly special in stealth production.
The problem is more like how long do you really want to produce single model, at what point you need to shift production, and how badly it will affect things.

As for the latter, while China has found that being rich is kinda nice, medium/heavy airframes as your basic tier will cost(and take time) a lot longer term. Procurement price is just the beginning.
Unless they’re also engineering designs based on sustainment factors.
 

zyklon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Probably because of similar reasons as to the Americans' F-22 export ban decision - The J-20 is the best China has, comprehensive capability-wise. @siegecrossbow have explained very well just above.

Besides FME threats, the other major issue is just a simple lack of bandwidth and outright human capital at CAC for manufacturing J-20s for export.

Meanwhile, unlike the F-22 which entered the game too early - The J-20 is continuously upgraded and improved upon. So while the F-22 gets left behind by their smaller counterparts F-35A/B/C, the J-20 always retain its tip-top comprehensive capabilities in the PLAAF relative to the other fighter models (prior to the induction of the J-36 and J-XDS, that is).

If you constantly update and iterate your production design, you're also going to have to constantly update and debug your manufacturing processes. That's going to stress your human capital, especially if they're already pushing overtime to increase output.

On top of that, if China is to export the J-20 anytime soon, it's going to have to be a variant incorporating certain alternative subsystems in lieu of what's onboard the domestic model. That means diverting resources to updating, reengineering, debugging and certifying an existing baseline J-20 iteration into a customer specific J-20 iteration, plus additional manpower for assembling and then staffing a separate production line.

This isn't going to be something the PLAAF will want to put up with until "J-20 overcapacity" somehow finally kicks in at CAC.

We can’t be so sure about F-22s not being upgraded continuously

It’s a private fighter, they wouldn’t just go around announcing new capabilities

Any significant upgrade to the F-22, especially for a meaningful number of airframes, is going to need Congress' stamp of approval to secure funding.

So
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
tend to be
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and not exactly "private:"

The Air Force plans to retire its older, 32 Block 20 F-22s, but is undertaking a program to upgrade the remaining 154 F-22 Raptors with new cryptography, an expanded open architecture, new weapons, the infrared search and track sensor, and a “Project Keystone” effort to install an advanced threat warning receiver.
 

Phead128

Major
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
J-35 production only for 3-4 carriers (up to 6) at 30-40 per carrier will be a huge problem when it comes to high attrition, replacing lossed J-35s, and limited production lines. You won't be able to replace J-35 fast enough in a high intensity war in the Pacific.

That's where PLAAF's J-35A can effectively subsidize or support J-35 production with J-35A production lines (high parts interchangeablility and commonality) which are expected to keep high levels of production into the next decade and longer. Also helps J-35 gain the economy of scale , but most importantly, rapid replacements of J-35 units with huge adjacent capacity.

This makes sense considering F-35 is expected to be fielded in thousand and with hundreds per year annual production capacity. In a Pacific conflict, the ability to replace or replenish loss units quickly may is quite important.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
200 per year looks like the realistic maximum.

Even this should be overkill for requirements in the 1st Island Chain by 2033

Not like they will only be deployed to the Pacific Frontier either. The Xizang Frontier certainly needs to be considered as well, especially assuming the worst-case scenario (i.e. India operating Su-57Es + managed to get their AMCA into serial production by the mid-2030s).
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Not like they will only be deployed to the Pacific Frontier either. The Xizang Frontier certainly needs to be considered as well, especially assuming the worst-case scenario (i.e. India operating Su-57Es + managed to get their AMCA into serial production by the mid-2030s).

I think India having a hundred 5th gen fighters is the realistic worse case scenario by 2033.
That doesn't change the overall strategic balances in any significant way.

And by 2033, I expect the first production J-36s to be ready.
 

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
That's where PLAAF's J-35A can effectively subsidize or support J-35 production with J-35A production lines (high parts interchangeablility and commonality) which are expected to keep high levels of production into the next decade and longer. Also helps J-35 gain the economy of scale , but most importantly, rapid replacements of J-35 units with huge adjacent capacity.
For this task alone, just build more J-35 and introduce them as is. There was no need to develop J-35A.
Subsidy version doesn't add up very well.
 

Phead128

Major
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
For this task alone, just build more J-35 and introduce them as is. There was no need to develop J-35A.
Subsidy version doesn't add up very well.
I don't think land-variants need a folding wing which adds weight, complexity, and cost. It's not hard to retool to add folding wings, launch bar, and tailhooks, but it's much harder to add production lines and scale fast enough in times of war. Both J-35A and J-35 complement each in terms of economy of scale and high parts interchangeablility.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
J-35 production only for 3-4 carriers (up to 6) at 30-40 per carrier will be a huge problem when it comes to high attrition, replacing lossed J-35s, and limited production lines. You won't be able to replace J-35 fast enough in a high intensity war in the Pacific.

That's where PLAAF's J-35A can effectively subsidize or support J-35 production with J-35A production lines (high parts interchangeablility and commonality) which are expected to keep high levels of production into the next decade and longer. Also helps J-35 gain the economy of scale , but most importantly, rapid replacements of J-35 units with huge adjacent capacity.

This makes sense considering F-35 is expected to be fielded in thousand and with hundreds per year annual production capacity. In a Pacific conflict, the ability to replace or replenish loss units quickly may is quite important.

Within the next 10 years, there simply won't be enough Chinese aircraft carriers to effectively contest blue-water control past the 2nd Island Chain, against a larger fleet of US aircraft carriers.

So Chinese carriers will likely adopt a strategically defensive posture within the 2nd Island Chain, where they can work with large numbers of land-based aircraft and missile units.

That limits the usefulness of being able to produce large numbers of J-35 (in order to replace losses)

---

But in the following 10 years, my guess is that the 1st Island Chain will be "secured", and that China's military will focus on blue-water sea control.

I expect China will build a larger aircraft carrier fleet than the US Navy, and by then, the J-XDS would be available.
 
Top