J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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Colonel
Re: New Generation Fighter

But I heard Chinese's standard of generations for fighters are different than that of the United States. Supposely a Western 3.5 is 4.0 in Chinese standard?? I am not sure about this at all, I just remmebering seeing something like this somewhere before

If you're talking about the definition of it, just add 1 to Chinese standard and you get equivalent western standard.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter

they gotta throw all their money into 4th gen, that's because they are facing f-22 and there is a possibility of conducting offensive air missions in the future.

I would have thought the F35 posed the greater danger, because in time its going to be the Frontline Fighterof most major counties that China might have a standoff with. So do you need a F22 equivilent or would a vastly improved J10 do the job.
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Is China the only country to use its own 'generational' classification? I don't think I've ever heard of any other country other than China having their own, every other country uses the same 'generation' classification as every other one except China.

I know this is because what in the rest of the world, is considered 1st and 2nd generation aircraft are considered a single 1st generation class in China, but why bother even having a different classification in the first place?
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Re: New Generation Fighter

Actually at this moment, we are always thinking that China will face off with the United States. But what really is the chance of that ever happening? And even if that is to happen, China with her current arsenal of aircraft couple with ground support such as their AAA and SAM would be enough to protect their mainland from the US.

If she wanted a 3.5 or a 4gen aircraft (whatever the classification is), it would mainly be for power projection. And if that is to happen, first she would need to have a place for these aircrafts to land re-fuel, re-supply, etc and the best bet would be their aircraft carriers and their naval escorts.

Thus I do believe that their 3.5 or 4gen aircraft to be heavily modified and upgraded J-10 or J-11, just to beef up their defence and their next generation fighters will be carrier launch capable.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

But I heard Chinese's standard of generations for fighters are different than that of the United States. Supposely a Western 3.5 is 4.0 in Chinese standard?? I am not sure about this at all, I just remmebering seeing something like this somewhere before

you heard it prolly cuz i said or cuz there was an article on this. and no i doubt the "Chinese standard" is just a watered down version of the Russian and Western standard. its gonna be a new set of demand for the new fighters under a doctrine the PLAAF wishes to employ in the future. so there could be a greater emphasis say on maneuverability and less on stealth or something like that...(not an expert in this field you gotta ask crobato) but my take on this is it all depends on the strategic demand of PLAAF's mission and what set of performance their current and future overall capacity demands of this particular weapon as a part of that system? since China has a different strategic need, diff military environment, diff military doctrines and capabilities than the US and Russia, it obviously needs a diff fighter.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Actually at this moment, we are always thinking that China will face off with the United States. But what really is the chance of that ever happening? And even if that is to happen, China with her current arsenal of aircraft couple with ground support such as their AAA and SAM would be enough to protect their mainland from the US.

If she wanted a 3.5 or a 4gen aircraft (whatever the classification is), it would mainly be for power projection. And if that is to happen, first she would need to have a place for these aircrafts to land re-fuel, re-supply, etc and the best bet would be their aircraft carriers and their naval escorts.

Thus I do believe that their 3.5 or 4gen aircraft to be heavily modified and upgraded J-10 or J-11, just to beef up their defence and their next generation fighters will be carrier launch capable.

its not us that are thinkin, its the leadership of the PLA. what other possible "imagined enemy" do you expect them to model after?

in my opinion just is just no need to design a new 3.5 gen aircraft, if they think that J-10 and J-11B has the potential to be upgraded to that level, then by all means go ahead. but trying to develop a whole new fighter that would come out to be far inferior from f-22 even now (let alone going in service 10 years later) is not something PLAAF would accept, unless there is such an insurmountable technological gap that they HAVE to get the 3.5 gen done away with before going on to 4th gen...otherwise even if it would take a lil bit longer, i think PLAAF would want that 4th gen as soon as possible.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

......

Thus I do believe that their 3.5 or 4gen aircraft to be heavily modified and upgraded J-10 or J-11, just to beef up their defence and their next generation fighters will be carrier launch capable.

No reason why they can't have a few projects ranging from next-gen J-10 based to newly developed next-gen land & carrier launched projects at the same time.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Re: New Generation Fighter

its not us that are thinkin, its the leadership of the PLA. what other possible "imagined enemy" do you expect them to model after?

Yes! I believe anyone in the PLA with just slightest ambition would see the US as THE target. Not necessarily a concrete military target, but more like where they want to be and whom they want to match up to in the near future.

but trying to develop a whole new fighter that would come out to be far inferior from f-22 even now (let alone going in service 10 years later) is not something PLAAF would accept, unless there is such an insurmountable technological gap that they HAVE to get the 3.5 gen done away with before going on to 4th gen...otherwise even if it would take a lil bit longer, i think PLAAF would want that 4th gen as soon as possible.

Again, good point! China now sees itself as a future superpower, and so do many other nations in the world. Its leadership would certainly not tolerate anything that would negatively influence this image. And coming up with only a 3.5 gen fighter by 2020 and proudly announcing such inferior design to the public would certainly make them look too "conservative" (to say it nicely), or not-being-able-to-measure-up/can only talk the talk, but can't walk the walk (something like what NK is doing). That would be a huge loss of face. We all know how important the face is to a Chinese. And this is only the emotional motivation for the 4th gen fighter.

Strategically, it is also crucial for China to have the 4th gen fighter. Not so much about the direct confrontation with the US. We know that both nations will do whatever they can to avoid it. But being among the most advanced AFs in the world will undoubtedly serve China tremendously and lend major credibility to China. This would be a crucial element in the "hard approach" in the Hard/soft combination approach of China's foreign policy.

I think there are two main things we need to consider: militarily what is actually needed and strategically what is best to have. I honestly don't think China will be in any major conflict in the near future, thus having a 3.5 gen fighter should be sufficient. However, strategically having only a 3.5 gen would be a BAD move because of the things I listed above. Please bare in mind that China is trying to catch up with the US. Focusing on only a 3.5 gen means that China will be even more behind the US in 2020. By then, the US would've had F-22 for 3 decades and will most likely come up with a 6th gen fighter design. Yet, China is only beginning to deploy a 3.5/4.5 gen. that will be almost TWO generations behind. And China NOW is only about one generation behind... That's not what someone who is trying to catch up should be doing. When you play catch-up, you want to speed up as soon as possible and try as hard as possible. Even with the current pace, China will still be falling behind. This means that China should aim for the 4th/5th gen NOW and get it out ASAP.

I actually think that the Chinese are actually aiming to surpass the F-22 at least in some aspects. This is what you should do when you try to catch up with someone.
 
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lilzz

Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter

Focusing on only a 3.5 gen means that China will be even more behind the US in 2020. By then, the US would've had F-22 for 3 decades and will most likely come up with a 6th gen fighter design. Yet, China is only sporting a 3.5/4.5 gen. That's not what someone who is trying to catch up should be doing. When you play catch-up, you want to speed up as soon as possible and try as hard as possible. Even with the current pace, China will still be falling behind. This means that China should aim for the 4th/5th gen NOW and get it out ASAP.

I actually think that the Chinese are actually aiming to surpass the F-22 at least in some aspects. This is what you should do when you try to catch up with someone.


The good news is F-22 should be the last manned fighter. most likely there won't be a 6th generation manned fighter, The limitation is not because of the machine but human bodies. I have read the US pilots of F-22 have often passed out due the plane doing crazy stuffs behind the limit of human bodies. F-22 is too powerful and reaching the limit of the human bodies.

In that respect, China will catch up in time because F-22 is the final frontier. It can't go any further.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Re: New Generation Fighter

The good news is F-22 should be the last manned fighter. most likely there won't be a 6th generation manned fighter, The limitation is not because of the machine but human bodies. I have read the US pilots of F-22 have often passed out due the plane doing crazy stuffs behind the limit of human bodies. F-22 is too powerful and reaching the limit of the human bodies.

In that respect, China will catch up in time because F-22 is the final frontier. It can't go any further.

I agree that the UAV is the future. But in the next 20-30 years, I'm not sure about that. Many limitations would still make the UAVs inferior than manned fighters in the main role of the fighters. And F-22 is not perfect. The maneuverability might have reached its limit, but other areas, such as stealth, may need further improvement.
 
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