J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

Remember this cockpit display? Except a little less girth on the fuselage it basically matches.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Subedei said:

Thanks for the advice!

Not sure that my comparison is baseless, just 'cause you say it is. It's based in seeking to condiser possible design influences on the J-20. Sometimes, we might consider that other's persopectives just might be as valid as ours. But, that requires humility, and I understand that humility is not generally characteristic of those who trace their cultural ancestry to the BRITISH EMPIRE!!! Thanks to the J-20, that may soon change!!!

Being that my tradition encourages individuals to value their own perceptions and experiences, and honors those who have the courage to be themselves in the face of criticism, I'll stick to my observations and suffer whatever comes. I don't harbor those insecurites which compel some to comform to popular opinion. I'm not a Victorian, and I'm not a middle-class consumer!

Sorry not to let you limit my possibilities. Kind'a wonder why you feel the need to???;(

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Who knew that "bladerunner" had a twin brother? Wonders never cease.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Subedei said:

Thanks for the advice!

Not sure that my comparison is baseless, just 'cause you say it is. It's based in seeking to condiser possible design influences on the J-20. Sometimes, we might consider that other's persopectives just might be as valid as ours. But, that requires humility, and I understand that humility is not generally characteristic of those who trace their cultural ancestry to the BRITISH EMPIRE!!! Thanks to the J-20, that may soon change!!!

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Sorry, didn't mean to sound too condescending it's just that too many people have tried to link design influences between chinese equipment and other ones without real evidence.

Being that my tradition encourages individuals to value their own perceptions and experiences, and honors those who have the courage to be themselves in the face of criticism, I'll stick to my observations and suffer whatever comes. I don't harbor those insecurites which compel some to comform to popular opinion. I'm not a Victorian, and I'm not a middle-class consumer!

Sorry not to let you limit my possibilities. Kind'a wonder why you feel the need to???;(

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It's just that many previous threads have had pages and pages of debating how one plane is similar to another. Gets kind of tiring after a while espicially when the debate is just based on superficial physical similarities.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Subedei said:

Thanks for the advice!

Not sure that my comparison is baseless, just 'cause you say it is. It's based in seeking to condiser possible design influences on the J-20. Sometimes, we might consider that other's persopectives just might be as valid as ours. But, that requires humility, and I understand that humility is not generally characteristic of those who trace their cultural ancestry to the BRITISH EMPIRE!!! Thanks to the J-20, that may soon change!!!

Being that my tradition encourages individuals to value their own perceptions and experiences, and honors those who have the courage to be themselves in the face of criticism, I'll stick to my observations and suffer whatever comes. I don't harbor those insecurites which compel some to comform to popular opinion. I'm not a Victorian, and I'm not a middle-class consumer!

Sorry not to let you limit my possibilities. Kind'a wonder why you feel the need to???;(

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No need for an indignant essay, an analysis of what the J-20 draws from the 1.42/44 and why would suffice.

For example, it seems to me that the rear control surfaces do resemble the 1.42/44 somewhat, with canted tailfins and ventral fins somewhat. However, the J-20's tailfins are canted at a much higher angle. We don't know the wing shape yet, but the 1.42/44's wings are pretty standard deltas, so no matter how the J-20's wings look like, you can't really say it draws from the Migs. Similarly for the engine placement, too many planes are similar in that regard. Both have canards, but both the shapes and the positions of the canards are too different. The intakes and the cockpit are also vastly different.

In conclusion, IMO, other than the rear control surfaces, the J-20 resembles the 1.42/44 as much as it does the Rafale(i.e. not much).

Now, your turn.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Even Su27 and J10 have ventral fins. The ones on J10 seems to be much more similar. As for the tail fin, one could argue its much more similar to that of F117.

Re: New Generation Fighter

lol well now that the high resolutions are out...time for the "PS/CG party" to come out and explain their previous allegations

Re: New Generation Fighter

I wonder if the lack of conformal shaping around the engines has more to do with the uncertainty of the final engine or a deficiency in their ability to calculate a more refined stealth shape, or if it is a deliberate attempt to reduce the RCS further.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Need better resolution and good weather for great desktop background.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

Sorry, didn't mean to sound too condescending it's just that too many people have tried to link design influences between chinese equipment and other ones without real evidence.

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Apology accepted. And I apologize if my response sounded condescending as well!

Bltizo said:

It's just that many previous threads have had pages and pages of debating how one plane is similar to another. Gets kind of tiring after a while espicially when the debate is just based on superficial physical similarities.

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Well, I'll try not to repeat past annoynces, but I'm quite excited about this development and I do tend to analyze things based on my own perceptions. I'm sure you know the story of the blind men describing the elephant. None of their conclusions about the object were correct, but none of their descriptions were incorrect, nor were their conclusions achieved by baseless observations. In the same way that the J-20 has some -what some perceive as superficial- similarities to other aircraft, it does have some unique design elements. These are all very exciting to me.

Some folks like to be told what the world is, and how the world works, others like to try to figure it out. Deductive and inductive reasoning don't have to be mutually exclusive. Some think that they do. I've always preferred the analyses of those who are willing to connect the dots thay see, hear, smell, feel, taste, and intuit. To me it makes for better art, science, and sport.

Nevertheless, you could very well be correct. If my enthusiasm is really that annoying here, if I am detracting rather than contributing, then I might well be in the wrong forum.

In parting, I've always preferred discussion to debate. In debate, the objective is to win by persuasuion. In a discussion, the objective is to contribute to collective learning. Discussions aren't conducted as a zero sum games. Debates are. At least, that's the way I've experienced it.

Peace!!!

Re: New Generation Fighter

Subedei said:

Black Dragon or Black Tiger, I think, would have been more cultural sympathetic and more menacing!

Does China need a plane with the same name as a USAF aircraft?

Oh well!!!

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"Black Silk Stocking", for the pronunciation of "black 4th generation" in Mandarin. This is the nickname in most Chinese military forums.