J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

Regarding the AShM issue: The F-35 will be able to fit the Joint Strike Missile, a joint development between LM & Kongsberg, of the Kongsberg Naval Strike Missile into it's weapons bay. That missile will suposedly have a max range of 225 km, I think.
Getting to within 200km of a hostile, highly sophisticated, CSG is still a daring undertaking, though. Maybe there's better ways.
If there's indeed another heavy stealth striker being developed under SAC lead, then air superiority & strike will have clearly assigned platforms I guess. But I think at some point even PLAAF will be strained with resources and money. So, J-20 might pretty well at some point do strike as well.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

Would it be worth it to fly four J-20s into the massive picket line of Aegis, E-2D, Growlers, F-35s and Superhornets while acting in conjunction with ASBM, land based AShM, sub based AShM -- or just scrap the J-20s and use other non stealthy platforms (like H-6 variants or JH-7A), but which can carry larger, longer ranged AShMs?
Regardless of how capable next generation, weapon-bay "fittable" AShMs are, they will have a very small range that the platform will have to enter the killzone to fire.

Click to expand...

Well, if I want to ensure that my adversary's best weapon is neutralized, I'm gon'na send in my best. Additionally, I wouldn't assume that any one platform would guarantee success. Of all the carrier-killing platforms you mention, none would better achieve the essential synthesis of human and technological elements than the J-20. Therefore, in my carrier defense strategy, there would -most definitely- be a significant place for the J-20.

Re: New Generation Fighter

T-50 is kinda like a flying wing, the whole body generates a lift. Notice how much thiner T-50 in comparison to F-22, F-35 and J-XX. The aircraft is kind of build around engines.

Re: New Generation Fighter

latenlazy said:

On the other hand the J-XX is a different airframe and will therefore have a different aerodynamic performance. What may be used in one airframe may not be beneficial in another. That, and I wonder if implementing that type of design was more for weight and size reduction than for aerodynamic benefits.

Click to expand...

All I really know is that, we will learn more as we receive more information. Whatever criticisms we may have of the few pics we've seen, this is all VERY exciting. To think that we might be able to observe the technological rise of a new world military power, just sitting here at our computers. Wow! This kind of knowledge has always -'til now- been observed in hindsight.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

Whoa wait wait -- how are the engines not "integrated in"? They're fully inside the airframe, and covered as well unlike the PAK FA, where they sort of protrude out.



Carrier killing... with what kind of weapns? Until we see a pic of the internal weapon bays it's difficult to tell the kind of ordanance it can carry (certainly not any current AShMs) -- and it'll be easier to use long range land based cruise missiles or ASBMs to take out carriers rather than having to go through the whole layered defence with an expensive stealth fighter.

Click to expand...

Mission Profile is interesting talk, the string of pearls strategy covers a large land and sea area, i think to design it to carry 1or 2 large AShms would certainly be useful, after all china has no stealth bomber

when we have pics of the weapons bay it will reveal a lot, large but shallow internal weapons bay like the f22 or perhaps a more box like bay to hold an AShm of 3/4 tons with a 1000km range, or longer even to attack from outside the defences of the carrier group, as well as being able to hold air to air missiles

This gives a wave top angle of attack to complement to d-21, perhaps it could get through, but i cant see how they would hide the IR signature which would be huge

Re: New Generation Fighter

Subedei said:

Well, if I want to ensure that my adversary's best weapon is neutralized, I'm gon'na send in my best. Additionally, I wouldn't assume that any one platform would guarantee success. Of all the carrier-killing platforms you mention, none would better achieve the essential synthesis of human and technological elements than the J-20. Therefore, in my carrier defense strategy, there would -most definitely- be a significant place for the J-20.

Click to expand...

Each to his own then

I just think sending in any number of J-20's to attack carriers is too risky considering how proficient the USN is at their CSG layered defense. And J-20 isn't necessarily the best platform to do the job either.

Re: New Generation Fighter

latenlazy said:

I had a thought related to the large wingspan and seemingly large intakes we've observed on the J-20. It seems that on Chinese military talk shows a lot of military experts prefer high altitude capabilities. I'm wondering if it's possible that the J-20 is designed to reach higher altitudes as a way to overcome potential disadvantages in stealth avionics, and weapons. Higher altitudes may make it harder for the plane to be detected and eliminate detection range advantages that competitors like the F-22 have, and could give inferior missile designs higher energy and more range. This could also make it easier for the J-20 to close in on planes with better stealth and radar so that it can utilize advantages in maneuverability. I wonder if the longer length of the plane would favour this tactic by increasing the momentum arm, so that the plane can climb faster using TVC.

Click to expand...

When it comes to tactics and by the time the J20 comes into operational service, won't ramjet powered missiles be the norm? I dont know about the US, but the Europeans are developing the "Meteor"

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

I just think sending in any number of J-20's to attack carriers is too risky considering how proficient the USN is at their CSG layered defense. And J-20 isn't necessarily the best platform to do the job either.

Click to expand...

Although I expect that the USN is quite proficient at carrier defense, that proficiency has yet to be tested against a coherent and synthesized attack. Thus, the J-20 just might be just THE platform to perform precision attacks beginning at the periphery of a CBG and working its way in to perform the coup-de grace!!!

But, this is all hypoth-theor-etical. And fun!!!

Re: New Generation Fighter

bladerunner said:

When it comes to tactics and by the time the J20 comes into operational service, won't ramjet powered missiles be the norm? I dont know about the US, but the Europeans are developing the "Meteor"

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

Probably, but the main form of defence will have to be stealth. On the other hand cloyce did a good job of demonstrating how marginal the gains are for flying higher just to avoid earlier detection, so in the end it was somewhat of a moot point.

Re: New Generation Fighter

bladerunner said:

When it comes to tactics and by the time the J20 comes into operational service, won't ramjet powered missiles be the norm? I dont know about the US, but the Europeans are developing the "Meteor"

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

If J-20 comes into IOC around 2017 I don't think ramjet BVRAAMs will be the norm -- they might have started being introduced around that time though, the Meteor at least. The US supposedly has a ramjet variant of AMRAAM under development but it shouldn't come into service before 2015, if I can jsut shoot a date into the air.
When J-20 comes into service the majority of BVRAAMs will still be non ramjet.

China has a meteor-like missile under development, tentatively called the PL-21.



No idea when it'll come into service though. I'm more curious to see the new gen WVRAAM PL-10, which will be a competitor to the likes of the new Sidewinder-X, IRIS-T and the like. There doesn't seem to be a lot of news on the missile front.

(Also, actively guided BVRAAMs might not be effective against stealthy targets simply because of the small RCS for them to home in on. That's why all current 5th gen fighters place so much emphasis on manouverability, so when fighting opposing 5th gens the BVRAAMs will be ineffective and they will return to good old dogfighting and more effective IR homing missiles).