J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:
Yeah, at least SAC is trying to up their game a little. I suppose Pakistan could be very well interested in their plane as well as the export market, though I wonder if this plane (if it even turns out to be real) will be a full 4th gen plane with supercruise and stealth. Espicially curious on if it will end up using WS-15 or not.

Also a bit strange that we've never heard of this project before...
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To get Pakistan hop on isn't too difficult, eventhough US has reopen its FMS channel to Pakistan, they know all too well China is more reliable source, alas not cutting edge. But it could ended up like with JF-17, Pakistan's final seal of approval would rest on China put down a certain number of orders to lower the unit cost. So...in this scenario, SAC's can still earn PLAAF's orders this way as well.

But however it'd turn out to be, with China also into the 4th-gen (5th by Western standard) fighter production business (Europe's no show, all hop onto the F-35 wagon, if not have yet past beyond full-size mockup), would we be looking at the spread of stealth fighters in the coming decade, so much so the US have to lax on the F-22 export...no no no, the production line has been shut down...the US have to push for successor to the F-22?
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: New Generation Fighter

I had a thought related to the large wingspan and seemingly large intakes we've observed on the J-20. It seems that on Chinese military talk shows a lot of military experts prefer high altitude capabilities. I'm wondering if it's possible that the J-20 is designed to reach higher altitudes as a way to overcome potential disadvantages in stealth avionics, and weapons. Higher altitudes may make it harder for the plane to be detected and eliminate detection range advantages that competitors like the F-22 have, and could give inferior missile designs higher energy and more range. This could also make it easier for the J-20 to close in on planes with better stealth and radar so that it can utilize advantages in maneuverability. I wonder if the longer length of the plane would favour this tactic by increasing the momentum arm, so that the plane can climb faster using TVC.
 
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Epsilon

New Member
Registered Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

latenlazy said:
I had a thought related to the large wingspan and seemingly large intakes we've observed on the J-20. It seems that on Chinese military talk shows a lot of military experts prefer high altitude capabilities. I'm wondering if it's possible that the J-20 is designed to reach higher altitudes as a way to overcome potential disadvantages in stealth avionics, and weapons. Higher altitudes may make it harder for the plane to be detected and eliminate detection range advantages that competitors like the F-22 have, and could give inferior missile designs higher energy and more range. This could also make it easier for the J-20 to close in on planes with better stealth and radar so that it can utilize advantages in maneuverability. I wonder if the longer length of the plane would favour this tactic by increasing the momentum arm, so that the plane can climb faster using TVC.
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Stealthy MiG-31? It will need monster engines though. It seems pretty bulky like F-22 and F-35 and those are quite an overweights but they are powered by a really good engines (and even that doesn't help F-35 that much). Curious how much composites J-XX uses and of course how much it weighs. Also it is pretty long aircaft and I wonder if supermaneuverability was in mind at all.
 
cloyce

cloyce

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

latenlazy said:
I had a thought related to the large wingspan and seemingly large intakes we've observed on the J-20. It seems that on Chinese military talk shows a lot of military experts prefer high altitude capabilities. I'm wondering if it's possible that the J-20 is designed to reach higher altitudes as a way to overcome potential disadvantages in stealth avionics, and weapons. Higher altitudes may make it harder for the plane to be detected and eliminate detection range advantages that competitors like the F-22 have, and could give inferior missile designs higher energy and more range. This could also make it easier for the J-20 to close in on planes with better stealth and radar so that it can utilize advantages in maneuverability. I wonder if the longer length of the plane would favour this tactic by increasing the momentum arm, so that the plane can climb faster using TVC.
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by flying high you will increase your theoretical detection range against surface targets, and your missile max range will also increase a little bit due to higher potential energy. But it won't save you from most AA missiles out there. I mean, the Blackbird flied in the stratosphere, but was shot down anyway.
Unless you achive Mesosphere flight capability, modern missiles will kill you anyway.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: New Generation Fighter

Epsilon said:
Stealthy MiG-31? It will need monster engines though. It seems pretty bulky like F-22 and F-35 and those are quite an overweights but they are powered by a really good engines (and even that doesn't help F-35 that much). Curious how much composites J-XX uses and of course how much it weighs. Also it is pretty long aircaft and I wonder if supermaneuverability was in mind at all.
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It's probable that they opted for a canard+tvc design in order to compensate for sacrifices in roll and turn rates caused by the length (and width) of the aircraft.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: New Generation Fighter

cloyce said:
by flying high you will increase your theoretical detection range against surface targets, and your missile max range will also increase a little bit due to higher potential energy. But it won't save you from most AA missiles out there. I mean, the Blackbird flied in the stratosphere, but was shot down anyway.
Unless you achive Mesosphere flight capability, modern missiles will kill you anyway.
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Only if they detect you though. The F-117 was shot down due to a passive detection system that was dedicated to an air route used regularly during bombing raids. Flying higher might decrease the chance of detection significantly enough to compensate for difference in stealth levels between the J-XX, and say the F-22.
 
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MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Re: New Generation Fighter

Epsilon said:
Stealthy MiG-31? It will need monster engines though. It seems pretty bulky like F-22 and F-35 and those are quite an overweights but they are powered by a really good engines (and even that doesn't help F-35 that much). Curious how much composites J-XX uses and of course how much it weighs. Also it is pretty long aircaft and I wonder if supermaneuverability was in mind at all.
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Now you mentioned composites I suddenly remembered XAC-AVIC acquired Future Advanced Composite Components, an Austria-based composite maker, in late 2009. Of course in terms of time span it'd be too late to make significant contribution in the current work schedule on J-20, but could this be laying foundations for the future serial production phase, even to the engine R&D?
 
maozedong

maozedong

Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter

hey! here is another new one:

29qi892.jpg
 
cloyce

cloyce

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

latenlazy said:
Only if they detect you though. The F-117 was shot down due to a passive detection system that was dedicated to an air route used regularly during bombing raids. Flying higher might decrease the chance of detection significantly enough to compensate for difference in stealth levels between the J-XX, and say the F-22.
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Really?
Then explain to us how could an aicraft that flies, lets say, at 25km (Blackbird) is significantly less detectable than an aircraft that flies at 10km (common jets).
 
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