J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

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Engineer

Major
Larger versions of the photos that johnqh posted:

S2TCm.jpg

KocIj.jpg


It is pretty evident that the J-20 was in a high G turn. Also appears that the LERX could produce some pretty nice vortices.

You can see that the LEXs ahead of the canards are also producing vortices.
 

kyanges

Junior Member
It only took 100 something pages. Good grief.

Who was arguing for what again? Was MiG29 supporting or discrediting the idea of LERXs in front of the J-20's canards? I know the discussion covered a lot more than this, but I'm just curious about what we "finally" have proof for.
 

Engineer

Major
Who was arguing for what again? Was MiG29 supporting or discrediting the idea of LERXs in front of the J-20's canards? I know the discussion covered a lot more than this, but I'm just curious about what we "finally" have proof for.

He was arguing that the J-20 is so sh** that it couldn't even compare to a 3rd generation fighter, and purposely ignored interactions between components to support his arguments. One of our counter arguments points out that the J-20 has two pairs of LEXs for producing vortices for lift at high AoA, and this is confirmed by the pictures above.
 
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Quickie

Colonel
Who was arguing for what again? Was MiG29 supporting or discrediting the idea of LERXs in front of the J-20's canards? I know the discussion covered a lot more than this, but I'm just curious about what we "finally" have proof for.

Can't remember what his claim was but the more popular claim among the J-20 detractors, who are usually also canard haters, is that the J-20 design is not very maneuverable and that it's more to serve the role of a strike aircraft.

On another note, amazing they tested quite a few types of maneuovre in the same day. They're probably eager to prove that there's an other way of building a maneuverable stealth fighter other than the more conventional design of F-22 or T50.
 

i.e.

Senior Member
Can't remember what his claim was but the more popular claim among the J-20 detractors, who are usually also canard haters, is that the J-20 design is not very maneuverable and that it's more to serve the role of a strike aircraft.

On another note, amazing they tested quite a few types of maneuovre in the same day. They're probably eager to prove that there's an other way of building a maneuverable stealth fighter other than the more conventional design of F-22 or T50.

some of them are not necessarily "detractors" but were mis-reading the true nature of this aircraft's design. either neglected to read correctly, or didn't read correctly, or had a angle to sell (mainly Dr. Carl K who wants to argue Austrailia is under the threat of a china possesseing a long range strike platform)

others, yes, the simple "F-22 is the king" crowd. or stereotypists that stick to "china can't do anything new, they can only crappy copy, look at walmart " crowd.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Kopp didn't say that the J-20 was a strike platform! He thinks that the J-20 is a super F-22 F-111 hybrid that could own anything from the air, the land, and the sea with the exception of the F-22. I recall his preliminary assessment stated that the J-20 was clearly designed to be a very manoeuvrable platform and that neither the F-35 nor the F-18 was a match for it, sparking much debate on the internet.

The first guy to propose this was Sweetman although he clearly stated that he was "hypothesizing" at the time and backed his comments up with professional assessments. After that a bunch of sour grapes from other forums started parroting him (the most extreme calling the J-20 a pure bomber with no air to air capabilities).

Sweetman is generally fair in his assessments and I believe that he is genuinely interested in the J-20. I don't think that he'll be upset to be proven wrong. Those sour grapes, on the other hand, will receive many more slaps to the faces as the J-20 matures as a platform.
 

Martian

Senior Member
J-20 Mighty Dragon starts to climb

mLHqJ.jpg

J-20 Mighty Dragon starts to climb.

6ZUIL.jpg

J-20 deploys drag parachute to slow down.

[Note: Thank you to HouShanghai and Rx8800 for the pictures.]
 
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i.e.

Senior Member
Kopp didn't say that the J-20 was a strike platform! He thinks that the J-20 is a super F-22 F-111 hybrid that could own anything from the air, the land, and the sea with the exception of the F-22. I recall his preliminary assessment stated that the J-20 was clearly designed to be a very manoeuvrable platform and that neither the F-35 nor the F-18 was a match for it, sparking much debate on the internet.

The first guy to propose this was Sweetman although he clearly stated that he was "hypothesizing" at the time and backed his comments up with professional assessments. After that a bunch of sour grapes from other forums started parroting him (the most extreme calling the J-20 a pure bomber with no air to air capabilities).

Sweetman is generally fair in his assessments and I believe that he is genuinely interested in the J-20. I don't think that he'll be upset to be proven wrong. Those sour grapes, on the other hand, will receive many more slaps to the faces as the J-20 matures as a platform.

I get a kick everytime Carl drags F-111 in the story to claim something is a "strike platform".
F-111 originally was designed to be a mach-2 mssile interceptor taking off from carriers forchristsake.
which MacNamara wants to save a buck so it became a multi-mission pig which can do low level penetration bombings, thus saddled with a heavy swing wing which penalized its range and true potential.

F/B-22 would be a better comparison... if the J-20 didn't have any canards and just a compound delta.

what throwed Bill and some other off was the fact the body volumn to wing area ratio. and the fact that it has high mounted wings. some one even commented that it looked like a TSR.
to some people.
Small wing, volumnious body, high mounted wing... strike.
Big wing, small body, mid mounted wing... fighter
they forgot what aggressive LERX and closed coupled canards can do to their lift curves.
 
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