J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

Will J-20 jet engine be revealed soon by CCTV?
Very recently broadcast Jet Engine development videos.

Do these Jet Engine development videos means anything ... ...?


Jet Engine development_1:




Jet Engine development_2:




WS-10-A development:

MwRYum said:

Not exactly, it's just that you got to have the sword and the shield as a whole package, not "each sold separately". What J-20's first flight proved is that "the damn thing can fly", now it's time for "what about the rest of the package?" deal, and that is not so easily observed unless they officially showcase them...usually, it'd be in those defence industry trade shows that you'd get the clue. By gleaning through the bits and pieces they exhibit, you'd get a more educated estimate into how far they progress in those sectors.
Another avenue would be the deals made for import stuff - though it'd not necessary be large in quantity, but apart from enough to cover the initial operations the rest would be samples for study.

Click to expand...

That's pretty reasonable. The article says they studied the kit China showed off at airshows too, but then they add that it doesn't say much in terms of actual deployment of what they exhibit, which I think is also logical, but is missing a little nuance. They're right that not everything shown is deployment ready, but then again, the exhibits range from plastic models to functional systems.

I recall earlier articles claiming China was making strides in anti-stealth detection, but were dismissed as rumor. No way our stealth fighters could be compromised right? Now with airframes like the J-20, there's details on American systems that can do the same. Considering it was the rest of the world that had to work feverishly to neutralize a once exclusively American advantage, the Chinese might already have the same capability anyways.

China's J-20 stealth fighter has an important advantage over the F-22 Raptor



"Of course, the Chinese don’t have to worry about building the J-20 in 44 states and God knows how many congressional districts just to keep everyone happy. No wonder we’re bumping up against a national debt ceiling of $14.3 trillion."

kyanges said:

So basically they're hinting that the goalpost has shifted, and now China's behind again because stealth aircraft are already obsolete?

Click to expand...

No, what they mean is that now China needs to develop a long range stealth detecting radar for the J-20.

Having stealth detecting radar doesn't make the J-20 or any other stealth aircraft obsolete, it merely counters the stealth aspect of the aircraft. The 5th generation fighters are only being produced (physically, in production or prototype) by 3 nations so far, so they are still great against all other nations that still use previous generations aircrafts. Ofcourse as time goes on - even 4th generation aircraft can be fitted with these anti-stealth radars, but since stealth is NOT the only aspect of being 5th generation fighter, a true 5th generation fighter should still outclass/outgun a 4th generation fighter with super cruise, super maneuverability, extended air engagement, beyond visual range interdiction...etc etc.

From the US perspective, the most worrisome aspect from the J-20 development is for the USN fleet in the pacific, and I guess its natural for US to develop ship-borne counter stealth capabilities. But even with counter stealth radar, the future USN are only going to field the slow F-35s which could be no match for a true Air-to-air J-20 (judging from the canard - super maneuverability, long range and high speed engagement due to enlarged internal fueling and weapons).


I think the only possible conclusion from American military establishment is to abandon the F-35 all together, and develop a naval version of F-22. In my opinion, F-35 looks kinda out of place on the USN, ever since the retirement of F-14, and the navy retaining the F-18 as fleet defender. I think a stealthy "F-14" style revival with F-22 characteristics is in the card.

At the same time, the development of a stealthy "F-14"'s implication for China could only mean the development of larger, different class of aircraft similar to the long range striker F-111, where it can house a far larger radar, with more sophiscation and higher speed / payload to penetrate sophiscated IDS systems in sea. I am betting the next stage of development for China is to have something similar to F-111, with stealth, and hypersonic speed as requirement.

T-U-P said:

something that has been bothering me for a while... what's the effect of that antenna (it's an antenna right?) at the nose of the plane in terms of RCS? Does it reduce stealth or is it negligible?

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that's not antenna. That's either an aerospike, or a performance measuring device.
I highly doubt its an aerospike though, because aerospike hasn't been use since 3rd generation aircraft back in the 70s..(F-5E is probably the last one I can remember that use it). Practically all 4th generation aircrafts abandon that idea. Plus its off-center so it definitely could not be aerospike as it will not work.

I think its more likely to be a performance measuring device, maybe measuring airspeed or whatnot.
The T-50 prototype seems to have it as well as many other prototype aircrafts. So it is most likely this 'spike' will be removed in the final production model.

kyanges said:

If the members only type of place is Pixv, that's fine as I have an account there.

Wow, there's quite a bit of art for the PAK-FA and the J-20 on there actually. This one was nice:

I guess there's Japanese fans of Chinese military hardware?

EDIT:
What's this one about? Can someone translate? I'm guessing it's some kind of joke on the irony of the sign? (They even copied over the amusing typo.)

Click to expand...

almost quite like a bunch of voyageur and creeps all starin' at a girl

kyanges said:

Hm, does that mean the "members only place" you mentioned actually is Pixv? Sorry if it feels like I'm pressing the issue, I'm just really interested in that sort of art, Anime and the like.

Thanks for explaining the picture too.


From a different board, a nice comparison compilation to go along with what Jeff Head posted earlier:

Click to expand...

no offense, but the pak-fa is really ugly. it's feeling more and more like a half-assed ripoff the more i look at it. i really doubt its stealth capabilities based on its design

airsuperiority said:

almost quite like a bunch of voyageur and creeps all starin' at a girl

Click to expand...

Dare I suggest that she may is being depicted as generally black and silky as in black Silk Stocking? Maybe even wearing same?

Martian said:

It might be a good idea to ignore incredible claims with little evidence to back it up. Articles that are written to wage psychological warfare have little value in serious military discussions.

If the claim that "stealth aircraft are already obsolete" was true then Secretary of Defense Robert Gates would not have asked President Hu Jintao directly whether the test flight of the J-20 was intentionally meant to coincide with his visit.

If stealth aircraft are obsolete, Mr. Gates could have cared less about China's J-20 stealth fighter. It is reasonable to conclude that the U.S. Congress' prohibition on the export of degraded F-22s and Mr. Gates' unhappiness of the J-20 test during his visit indicate that stealth aircraft are still very much superweapons.

Click to expand...

IMO how successful your stealth plane is, dependent on the complete package. If the other guy has a superior weapons suite and radar etc etc , which allows him to see you before you see him then youre toast. Nothing can be more demoralising then seeing your fellow pilots being downed, and you don't know where its coming from.

as a example heres what one guy over at WAB opinionated?. Note Im not saying he's correct, because i haven't a clue on judging whether he's on solid ground when it comes to crunching the numbers.

"..... So, the J-20 should have a 50% larger AESA than the F-22, which, if the Chinese can get their AESA technology right, should increase SnR in DB by 50%, or reduce the F-22's effective RCS by 1.8 DB. If it's in the F-35 RCS range, then that reduces the DBSM difference from 10 to 8.2, which reduces the F-22's detection range advantage to 170/70%; the F-22 can spot the J-20 at 170% the distance the J-20 would. So, this works out to something around the J-20 getting detected at 22 nm and the F-22 getting spotted at 13 nm. The J-20 would get detected by the F-35 at 16.5 nm and detect the F-35 at 19 nm..........."