J-20... The New Generation Fighter II
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Roger604
Senior Member
I read that this is a further step in the Taihang family --> WS-10G? Or WS-10B?
You hit the nail on the head. I also think there is an element of deliberate suggestion the PLA is "taking over" the decision-making of the PRC government. Sort of like a "neo-con takeover" of White House and Congress, seen from the other perspective.
No, the canard delta has superior dogfighting agility to conventional layout. In the same way Eurofighter has superior agility to F-15, J-20 has superior agility to F-22. They are the same respective airframe designs but with stealth added.
J-20 is built for dogfighting agility at supersonic speeds, and of course high-altitude, super-cruising, long-range runs. Agility at subsonic speeds and nose pointing ability is hindered by the long, slender design but a 3D TVC would help. The tail is obviously designed to accommodate a 3D TVC.
Re: Today's Headlines of China's Newspapers About J-20 Take Off For the 1st Time
I do not think China able to imitate the level of highly sophisticate data fusion found in F-22.some like EODS (electro optical defensive aid ) are within Chinese tech capability.but other such as chinese equivalent of ALR-94 ESM/RWR.or multi function LPI data link are doubt.and not to mention the complexity of solfware.
My speculation is that level of J-20 avionics system may be half that block-1 F-22
or a PLAAF "F-35 on steroid" (as one aviation writer called SU-27SK as "F-16 on steroid)
(SU-27SK radar/avionics system more or less are compatible to F-16A ,but are 15% heavier)
I do not think China able to imitate the level of highly sophisticate data fusion found in F-22.some like EODS (electro optical defensive aid ) are within Chinese tech capability.but other such as chinese equivalent of ALR-94 ESM/RWR.or multi function LPI data link are doubt.and not to mention the complexity of solfware.
My speculation is that level of J-20 avionics system may be half that block-1 F-22
or a PLAAF "F-35 on steroid" (as one aviation writer called SU-27SK as "F-16 on steroid)
(SU-27SK radar/avionics system more or less are compatible to F-16A ,but are 15% heavier)
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Maggern
Junior Member
Re: Today's Headlines of China's Newspapers About J-20 Take Off For the 1st Time
Could you please, please stop debating China threat, the American media and foreign currency reserves. I just had to flip through six pages of that crap, and little to none of it was related to the J-20. There are separate threads for all those topics.
Thanks. (and sorry for taking on the mods' job)
Could you please, please stop debating China threat, the American media and foreign currency reserves. I just had to flip through six pages of that crap, and little to none of it was related to the J-20. There are separate threads for all those topics.
Thanks. (and sorry for taking on the mods' job)
Anti-Stealth Sensors to Tackle Chinese and Russian LO Designs
Posted by David A. Fulghum at 1/11/2011 2:13 PM CST
With first flight out of the way, the discussion about China’s new J-20 stealth prototype is switching to the aircraft’s mission (fighter or, more likely, long-range strike), sensors (strike missions would require a high-resolution long-range radar) and communications (which would demand high-speed datalinks and sophisticated integration).
Conventional radars have only one-half to one-third of the range of an active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Moreover, the movement of a conventional, mechanically-scanned radar antenna provides a tell-tale glint of radio frequency (RF) reflections to enemy aircraft with advanced radars. Such reflections slash at the effectiveness of a stealth airframe. China is known to be pursuing newer radar technology.
“It's too early to tell the true status of the Chinese AESA program,” says a Washington-based intelligence official. “We've seen lots of press and airshow info on the program, but that doesn't automatically translate into a robust development or give us an accurate look at where the PRC is as far as fielding one anytime soon.
“Like the [high-performance] engine, it'll be a challenge to take the step from older radars to one designed for a 5th-Gen fighter,” he says. “Again, though, the J-20 is just the first or second -- depending on whom you believe -- prototype into a very long development program.”
A two-seat J-10 fighter acted as chase plane for the J-20 during the flight
Photographs show the J-20 flying at shallow angles of attack and with its undercarriage extended. An observer posting minute-by-minute reports of proceedings to the Global Times, apparently from the fence at Avic’s Chengdu facility, said at 12:50:08 local time (04:50:08 GMT) that the aircraft had begun moving, following a second later with “accelerating” and at 12:50:16 “flying”. The landing was reported 18 minutes later.
Two passenger aircraft, one a 737, arrived at the Chengdu facility less than an hour before the J-20’s takeoff, presumably carrying important officials. The Chengdu plant is part of the Avic combat aircraft division, Avic Defense.
“Chinese military [sources] are saying that the first test pilot for the new Chinese fighter is Liang Wanjun,” the analyst says. “He has previously test flown the J-7, J-10 and JF-17. Liang has a total of 2,300 flying hours, joined the PLAAF in 1982 and became a test pilot in 1998.
It is unclear whether the J-20 is a prototype or only a technology demonstrator. Either way, it is not the only program for an advanced combat aircraft.
The deputy chief of the air force, He Weirong, said in November 2009 that in 2017-19 China would field a “fourth-generation” fighter, which in China means an aircraft of the F-22’s technology level. He was not referring to the J-20, however, because a month later a prominent news report in English quoted the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) as saying that the 2017-19 fighter would be an improved J-10. It is possible that the 2017-19 fighter is a supercruise version of the J-10 since the Chinese navy has expressed the need for an aircraft that can maintain fuel-efficient, long-distance, supersonic flight, a necessity for keeping enemy forces away from the coast of China.
The Chengdu J-20 design has struck most analysts and observers as familiar and somewhat different that the Lockheed-Martin F-22 and F-35 as well as the Sukhoi T-50.
“The J-20 is reminiscent of the Russian MiG 1.42 both in terms of planform, and also with regard to the rear fuselage configuration,” says Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for military aerospace at London’s International Institute for Strategic Studies. “The most obvious difference is the greater forward fuselage shaping as the basis for low observable characteristics, along with the different engine intake configuration. The MiG program was cancelled by the Russian government around 1997.”
Others note that the planform also has a resemblance to Sweden’s SAAB Viggen.
Another issue that will continue to surround all stealth designs is how long will current stealth designs offer invulnerability as air defenses adopt even larger and more powerful AESA radars. From the early days of AESA development, a key goal was to build a radar that can detect a very small object like a cruise missile at a distance great enough to target and shoot it down or a larger object like a fighter with a very low observable treatment.
Airborne detection of stealth aircraft may have already been accomplished in a series of tests done at Edwards AFB, Calif. in the second half of 2009. Those with insight into the research say Lockheed Martin’s CATbird avionics testbed –a 737 that carries the F-35 joint strike fighter’s entire avionics system -- engaged a mixed force of F-22s and F-15s and was able to target the F-22s.
"The F-35 mission systems suite is the most sophisticated and powerful avionics package of any fighter in the world," said Dan Crowley, Lockheed Martin executive vice president and F-35 program general manager at the time of the tests.
His clue about the fighter’s anti-stealth capability is in a reference to confronting new, sophisticated, foreign aircraft.
“The F-35's avionics include on-board sensors that will enable pilots to strike fixed or moving ground targets in high-threat environments, day or night, in any weather, while simultaneously targeting and eliminating advanced airborne threats,” Crowley said.
Martian
Senior Member
It might be a good idea to ignore incredible claims with little evidence to back it up. Articles that are written to wage psychological warfare have little value in serious military discussions.
If the claim that "stealth aircraft are already obsolete" was true then Secretary of Defense Robert Gates would not have asked President Hu Jintao directly whether the test flight of the J-20 was intentionally meant to coincide with his visit.
If stealth aircraft are obsolete, Mr. Gates could have cared less about China's J-20 stealth fighter. It is reasonable to conclude that the U.S. Congress' prohibition on the export of degraded F-22s and Mr. Gates' unhappiness of the J-20 test during his visit indicate that stealth aircraft are still very much superweapons.
WTF? So basically they are saying this plane is different from other 5th gen, but still a rip off?
Who the hell said that the plane was similary to the Saab Viggen? So much for "Experts" these days. I think I should end my engineering career and work as one of those "experts" instead.
MwRYum
Major
Not exactly, it's just that you got to have the sword and the shield as a whole package, not "each sold separately". What J-20's first flight proved is that "the damn thing can fly", now it's time for "what about the rest of the package?" deal, and that is not so easily observed unless they officially showcase them...usually, it'd be in those defence industry trade shows that you'd get the clue. By gleaning through the bits and pieces they exhibit, you'd get a more educated estimate into how far they progress in those sectors.
Another avenue would be the deals made for import stuff - though it'd not necessary be large in quantity, but apart from enough to cover the initial operations the rest would be samples for study.
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