J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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rhino123 said:
First of... you never provide any reason to support your claim that my opinions are wrong. It is just a rebuke on what I think (mind you. That is just an opinion on my part) of what the Russian MIGHT be doing. And, i never said that they MUST HAVE many interchangable parts, I just said that I believe (might be wrong though).

If you want to overthrow my opinions, fine with me. But you have to provide more credible rebuke and not some general claims as you have written... as I have presented my case.

1) to save development time and cost.
2) Pilots and engineers alike in both the developers countries are familiar with Flankers.
3) They MIGHT have interchangeable parts to save on logistic and maintanence cost.

And if you have any credible resources saying that those opinions are not correct, then by all mean present them.

Oh... and I pose this question to you, "How do you know F22 didn't share interchangeable parts with F15? Do you have infor that none of us have?"

And what you have just said is like, just because two product (say, a Honda Civic and a Honda Accord) looked different, they must have have shared a single interchangeable part? Do you want to strip the vehicles down and see how many parts that these two vehicle actually shared?
Click to expand...

Come on man let us not descend to the level of J-20 bashers.
 
K

kyanges

Junior Member
rhino123 said:
First of... you never provide any reason to support your claim that my opinions are wrong. It is just a rebuke on what I think (mind you. That is just an opinion on my part) of what the Russian MIGHT be doing. And, i never said that they MUST HAVE many interchangable parts, I just said that I believe (might be wrong though).

If you want to overthrow my opinions, fine with me. But you have to provide more credible rebuke and not some general claims as you have written... as I have presented my case.

1) to save development time and cost.
2) Pilots and engineers alike in both the developers countries are familiar with Flankers.
3) They MIGHT have interchangeable parts to save on logistic and maintanence cost.

And if you have any credible resources saying that those opinions are not correct, then by all mean present them.

Oh... and I pose this question to you, "How do you know F22 didn't share interchangeable parts with F15? Do you have infor that none of us have?"

And what you have just said is like, just because two product (say, a Honda Civic and a Honda Accord) looked different, they must have have shared a single interchangeable part? Do you want to strip the vehicles down and see how many parts that these two vehicle actually shared?
Click to expand...

You've made a claim on something which is almost impossible to verify either way or in any scale (for instance, how many parts, or what kind?), and then you shift the burden of proof to anyone who disagrees. I think it's another dead end discussion, that also happens to sound eerily similar to the type of accusations against the J-20, which claim that it's merely a cobbled together mix of different aerodynamic solutions pioneered by the F-22, F-35, and MiG 1.44.

Sure Chengdu may have built on what's gone before, and the people at Sukhoi might have exploited any means necessary to save costs in the same way that the people at Northrop did for the YF-23, but it's the kind of speculation that won't be resolved without more info which we probably won't get for a while.
 
rhino123

rhino123

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kyanges said:
You've made a claim on something which is almost impossible to verify either way or in any scale (for instance, how many parts, or what kind?), and then you shift the burden of proof to anyone who disagrees.
Click to expand...

First off, this is getting really out topic, so I am only going to say in my defence. I have an opinion, just an opinion, which might be wrong and I had agreed with flateric on his assessment after he brought up and present his case. I NEVER shift any burden of proof to anyone. I just don't see how flateric's rebuke in his first two posts on my comments to be making any sense. But his third post is great and so I accept his reasoning.

And in my post on asking how he know F22 and F15 didn't share any common parts, it is a valid question, because in his comment before mind, he led me to believe that they didn't share any.

So seriously, I don't see any problem here.

But maybe we can continue this discussion else where.
 
Martian

Martian

Senior Member
Is Russian T-50 stealthy at all with its exposed gigantic engine fan blades?

Let's evaluate the Russian T-50 according to known standard criteria for a modern stealth fighter design.

1. Frameless cockpit canopy

2. Continuous curvature

3. Diverterless Supersonic Inlets (i.e. DSI) technology. F-22 lacks this advanced stealth design feature. Similar to F-35 stealth feature.

4. Extensive saw-toothed edges (e.g. landing gear bays and on engine nozzles)

5. Planform alignment

6. Low Observable Axisymmetrical Nozzle (i.e. LOAN) technology. Similar to F-35 stealth feature.

7. Gold-tinted RAM-coating cockpit canopy.

8. Internal weapons bays.

9. Serpentine air inlets (or S-air inlets).

10. Black RAM coating on entire aircraft. Similar to black RAM coating on F-117 Nighthawk.

The T-50 fully satisfies criterion #8 and only partially satisfies #4 and #5. The T-50 currently lacks a full 7 out of 10 stealth design features seen on the J-20. You can argue whether the T-50 meets a couple of the other criteria, but it is obvious that the current T-50 is seriously deficient. Any objective person can see that the T-50 needs a radical re-design to become a competitive modern stealth fighter.

The radar signature from the T-50's exposed fan blades alone is so enormous that it is questionable whether the T-50 can be classified as a stealth fighter at all.

L9x9x.jpg

Russian T-50 with exposed engine fan blades
 
Martian

Martian

Senior Member
Engine fan blockers still result in a non-stealthy aircraft

cn_habs said:
How effective is the fan blocker that some people talked about?
Click to expand...

Not very useful. It can reduce a portion of the exposed fan blades. However, a slapped-together solution still results in a non-stealthy aircraft.

7Zjf5.jpg

American F-18E fan blocker. Good try, but you're still non-stealthy.
 
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