J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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s002wjh

Junior Member
vesicles said:
I think what Schumaker talked about was the fact that many engineers and scientists working in American institutes and corporations are indeed foreign born, especially Chinese and Indians. In the US, majority of the graduate students in science and engineering schools are Chinese and Indians and most of them end up staying in the US and working for American institutes. So American designs also get foreign influence since most of these people got majority of their education in their homeland. And when they designed the system, their thought process is definitely influenced by what they had been taught previously. This includes what they learned in their homeland. I have an uncle who works for NASA and one of his main projects is to develop an aerodynamic theory that he first developed when he worked as an engineer in China (Shenyang, actually). So is the US using Chinese technology? In this case, yes. And this kind of things occurs often in American scientific institutes. Many visiting scholars brought their projects with them when they came to the States and c ontinue working them. This is often the case in Biology. How do I know? I am a biochemist and I have worked with many foreign visiting scholars from all over the world (Chinese, Japanese, Danish, German, British and Australian). Many of them continue to work on their projects that they developed when they were in their home country. And many of these projects stay in our labs and have been continued even when these foreign visiting scholars have left and gone back to their own country. So yes, we borrow from others, heavily. Let's face it. This is why the US is the world leader in technology. Have you seen how many "foreign faces" in high tech companies, like Google, Intel, Apple, Microsoft, etc?

And talking about stealing/borrowing technology, both nuclear and space programs in the US are indeed German in origin. If you look at the list of all the scientists involved in these programs, most of them are Germans. And instead of taking bits and pieces, the US simply took the entire German program and moved it over to the US. Some of the most important members were actually proven Nazi war criminals. The bioligcal wepaons program in the US also borrowed a lot from Japan after WWII. When Japan was defeated, the US took all their biological weapons data (aka the unit 731, I think)
With that said, I think we should leave this topic alone...
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there are VERY few chinese or indian working in the defense industry, corporation like lockeed or others need security cleareance, and most chinese grad have hard time to get H1B, let along clearance. On top of that you have to be US citizen to work on project like B2, F22. If you look at employees from ANY defense insustry, you will notice majority are caucasian. And most chinese or indian you seen are likely 2nd generation immigrate. These industry are not yahoo/google
 
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Lion

Senior Member
s002wjh said:
there are VERY few chinese or indian working in the defense industry, corporation like lockeed or others need security cleareance, and most chinese grad have hard time to get H1B, let along clearance. On top of that you have to be US citizen to work on project like B2, F22. If you look at employees from ANY defense insustry, you will notice majority are caucasian. And most chinese or indian you seen are likely 2nd generation immigrate. These industry are not yahoo/google
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So you are implying the B-2 secret sold by the Indian immigrant are most likely not any secret but just some sub standard data?

Actually, I am quite surprise why they want to make public of this espionage?
 
K

KYli

Brigadier
Courtesy of GT from CDF

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vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
s002wjh said:
there are VERY few chinese or indian working in the defense industry, corporation like lockeed or others need security cleareance, and most chinese grad have hard time to get H1B, let along clearance. On top of that you have to be US citizen to work on project like B2, F22. If you look at employees from ANY defense insustry, you will notice majority are caucasian. And most chinese or indian you seen are likely 2nd generation immigrate. These industry are not yahoo/google
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I have to disagree with you on that. First of all, it's not hard to get an H1B. to this day, I have not heard anyone who applies for an H1B is denied. Secondly, there are many naturalized US citizens working in the defence industry. And I emphasize the word "naturalized" because these people got their education in a foreign country and their way of thinking is heavily influenced by their foreign culture/education although officically they are US citizens. The uncle of mine that I was talking about would be a good example. Wen Holee would be another example. I have Indian friends who used to work at Los Alamos. Two of my Chinese friends are now working for NASA in Houston and they mentioned that many of their colleagues are Chinese and Indians.

Plus being a caucasian doesn't mean they are Americans. They could be from any of the European nations/Australia, etc. So looks doesn't mean anything. You can't simply say these people are Americans simply because of their skin color.
 
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Schumacher

Senior Member
s002wjh said:
there are VERY few chinese or indian working in the defense industry, corporation like lockeed or others need security cleareance, and most chinese grad have hard time to get H1B, let along clearance. On top of that you have to be US citizen to work on project like B2, F22. If you look at employees from ANY defense insustry, you will notice majority are caucasian. And most chinese or indian you seen are likely 2nd generation immigrate. These industry are not yahoo/google
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Defense firms like LM don't work in isolation from the wider civilian high tech/research sectors and technologies for F22, B2 don't come only from these defense firms.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
Jeff Head said:
Here's an older Russian design that was, in concept, a lot like the J-20. It's the MIG-MFI (1.43/1.44) program from the late 1990s. Cancelled in 1997, but they did build one prototype which, I believe, flew in 2000.

800px-Mig_1-44-2.png


mfi_01.jpg

What do you think?
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There was a design concept, dated back all the way to the 1970's, to which the J-20 bares a resemblance to. That concept was called the J-9:
J9VII-IIwindtunnel.jpg


As we can see, the canard-delta configuration has been studied by China for over 40 years. Those who accuse China of copying X aircraft simply don't have a clue.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
s002wjh said:
there are VERY few chinese or indian working in the defense industry, corporation like lockeed or others need security cleareance, and most chinese grad have hard time to get H1B, let along clearance. On top of that you have to be US citizen to work on project like B2, F22. If you look at employees from ANY defense insustry, you will notice majority are caucasian. And most chinese or indian you seen are likely 2nd generation immigrate. These industry are not yahoo/google
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You underestimate the size of the Chinese population that has naturalized in the last 20 years, especially in large states like California and Texas (I cite these states for reasons pertinent to defence). Although far from a real intelligence threat (no one wants a repeat of Wen Ho Lee), many of these naturalized citizens do business with their indigenous countries, sometimes after leaving certain sectors and going out on their own as entrepreneurs. It's not unimaginable that China has been able to capitalize on this in at least a few occasions, especially when civilian technologies can be developed or adapted for military use.

Looks like Vesicles ninja'ed me. The fact that you have two Chinese Americans vouching this point on pure coincidence should say something :p
 
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Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
Jeff Head said:
Here's an older Russian design that was, in concept, a lot like the J-20. It's the MIG-MFI (1.43/1.44) program from the late 1990s. Cancelled in 1997, but they did build one prototype which, I believe, flew in 2000.

800px-Mig_1-44-2.png


mfi_01.jpg

What do you think?
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Eurofighter Typhoon copied some of the elements of Mig 1.44. ;)
 
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