J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

[Schumacher]

I'm pretty sure they're implying that China, "legally, illegally, and paralegally" obtained certain parts for the J-20.

In fact, some guy from Hawaii who was an Engineer who worked on the B-2 sold some secrets to the Chines governments, you can have almost no doubt that some of that knowledge was incorporated into the J-20 demonstrator.

How can you 'have almost no doubt that some of that knowledge was incorporated into the J-20 demonstrator.' when you don't provide any evidence ?
Besides, a country like USA who rely heavily on foreign talents, including many Chinese, in its high tech sectors should complain less about techs being leaked overseas.

 

[IronsightSniper]

I'm no engineer too, but if it is proven that China has indeed illegally obtained parts from other Country's fighter programs to be integrated into the J-20 than I think a serious investigation should be undertaken on China's fighter programs and I think there's a court case to come out of this.

Not to mention that if China is indeed stealing parts from other Country's fighter programs than production will be difficult until they can truly copy and paste those parts instead of purchasing them legally. There's also the performance aspect of this, as reverse engineered copies are usually deficient of the standard version's performance.

How can you 'have almost no doubt that some of that knowledge was incorporated into the J-20 demonstrator.' when you don't provide any evidence ?
Besides, a country like USA who rely heavily on foreign talents, including many Chinese, in its high tech sectors should complain less about techs being leaked overseas.

Well, this is not a regular plane we're talking here, an Engineer who's worked on the B-2 is a very High Value asset, I have no doubt, not in evidence but in logic, that China would of course take some of that technology and integrate it into their programs.

That is actually quite false, U.S. Corporations depend on foreign suppliers, but the F-22/35 and B-2 programs are vastly indigenous, when compared to other programs such as the PAK-FA or J-XX programs which incorporate many foreign parts from Europe/Israel.

 

[Lion]

I'm no engineer too, but if it is proven that China has indeed illegally obtained parts from other Country's fighter programs to be integrated into the J-20 than I think a serious investigation should be undertaken on China's fighter programs and I think there's a court case to come out of this.

Not to mention that if China is indeed stealing parts from other Country's fighter programs than production will be difficult until they can truly copy and paste those parts instead of purchasing them legally. There's also the performance aspect of this, as reverse engineered copies are usually deficient of the standard version's performance.



Well, this is not a regular plane we're talking here, an Engineer who's worked on the B-2 is a very High Value asset, I have no doubt, not in evidence but in logic, that China would of course take some of that technology and integrate it into their programs.

That is actually quite false, U.S. Corporations depend on foreign suppliers, but the F-22/35 and B-2 programs are vastly indigenous, when compared to other programs such as the PAK-FA or J-XX programs which incorporate many foreign parts from Europe/Israel.

Your comment are truly laughable... So you think J-20 is a cut and paste stealth fighter jet?

And WOW.. You sound so sure. So during the maiden flight of J-20 that time. You must be also one of the VIP present that time.

In forum, we don't use plain logic to prove something. Hard fact is needed. Sometime visual prove can also be accepted like engine used on maiden flight of J-20 is comfirmed something new.. Not AL-31F or 117S.

Other than that, dont BS with dubious link or personal logic theory unless its back by solid fact. Yes, the case had heard before. But no gurantee, that tech will definitely be applied. It might be asborbed as 'how to deal with' rather than applying it.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I'm no engineer too, but if it is proven that China has indeed illegally obtained parts from other Country's fighter programs to be integrated into the J-20 than I think a serious investigation should be undertaken on China's fighter programs and I think there's a court case to come out of this.

Not to mention that if China is indeed stealing parts from other Country's fighter programs than production will be difficult until they can truly copy and paste those parts instead of purchasing them legally. There's also the performance aspect of this, as reverse engineered copies are usually deficient of the standard version's performance.



Well, this is not a regular plane we're talking here, an Engineer who's worked on the B-2 is a very High Value asset, I have no doubt, not in evidence but in logic, that China would of course take some of that technology and integrate it into their programs.

That is actually quite false, U.S. Corporations depend on foreign suppliers, but the F-22/35 and B-2 programs are vastly indigenous, when compared to other programs such as the PAK-FA or J-XX programs which incorporate many foreign parts from Europe/Israel.

So you are saying that the Russians themselves copy/paste stuff from other countries and some how they are qualified to talk about how other countries steal technology... wow, just wow.

 

[Schumacher]

..........Well, this is not a regular plane we're talking here, an Engineer who's worked on the B-2 is a very High Value asset, I have no doubt, not in evidence but in logic, that China would of course take some of that technology and integrate it into their programs.

That is actually quite false, U.S. Corporations depend on foreign suppliers, but the F-22/35 and B-2 programs are vastly indigenous, when compared to other programs such as the PAK-FA or J-XX programs which incorporate many foreign parts from Europe/Israel.

You think massive programs like F-22/35, B2 can come out of the blue in isolation in the military sector without the support of the vast network of US civilian corporations and research labs. The fact is US is the most dependent on foreign talents, including many Chinese, in its high tech sectors among all major powers and has benefited hugely from it. So keep that in mind next time you complain about techs being leaked overseas.

 

[IronsightSniper]

Your comment are truly laughable... So you think J-20 is a cut and paste stealth fighter jet?

And WOW.. You sound so sure. So during the maiden flight of J-20 that time. You must be also one of the VIP present that time.

In forum, we don't use plain logic to prove something. Hard fact is needed. Sometime visual prove can also be accepted like engine used on maiden flight of J-20 is comfirmed something new.. Not AL-31F or 117S.

Other than that, dont BS with dubious link or personal logic theory unless its back by solid fact. Yes, the case had heard before. But no gurantee, that tech will definitely be applied. It might be asborbed as 'how to deal with' rather than applying it.

If you didn't notice, everything I said was personal theory, I posted a video above, he made the claims.

So you are saying that the Russians themselves copy/paste stuff from other countries and some how they are qualified to talk about how other countries steal technology... wow, just wow.

Yes actually, the F-22 is really the only fully indigenous Fighter programs out there. PAK-FA still uses a bit of foreign tech while the J-XX demonstrator uses a bit more than the PAK-FA.

You think massive programs like F-22/35, B2 can come out of the blue in isolation in the military sector without the support of the vast network of US civilian corporations and research labs. The fact is US is the most dependent on foreign talents, including many Chinese, in its high tech sectors among all major powers and has benefited hugely from it. So keep that in mind next time you complain about techs being leaked overseas.

Well if you are talking about Chinese scientists, they came here by their own will. America actually does not depend highly on China/Japan/Europe for our Military technology, we do purchase the occasional electronics from Europe or the occasional optics from Japan but for the most part, we did the thinking, we did the building, and we did the construction.

As I've said before, the guy was an Engineer that worked directly on the B-2, he wasn't working for a Civilian firm that had relations with the B-2.

 

[Lion]

You think massive programs like F-22/35, B2 can come out of the blue in isolation in the military sector without the support of the vast network of US civilian corporations and research labs. The fact is US is the most dependent on foreign talents, including many Chinese, in its high tech sectors among all major powers and has benefited hugely from it. So keep that in mind next time you complain about techs being leaked overseas.

Yup... Large number of Israel military technology and innovation were given to US as part of the repayment for the generous loan to Israel.

 

[kyanges]

Other than that, dont BS with dubious link or personal logic theory unless its back by solid fact. Yes, the case had heard before. But no gurantee, that tech will definitely be applied. It might be asborbed as 'how to deal with' rather than applying it.

Debating how China is using the information sold to it is a dead end discussion because no on knows exactly what information was leaked. I would just say that it's obvious that China is applying it in some way, and leave it at that.

... while the J-XX demonstrator uses a bit more than the PAK-FA.

See, it's statements like that which are a bait to a dead-end discussion, since you wouldn't be able to name what bits of foreign tech are being used where, and you certainly aren't privy to enough information to start assigning values of more or less.

 

[vesicles]

That is actually quite false, U.S. Corporations depend on foreign suppliers, but the F-22/35 and B-2 programs are vastly indigenous, when compared to other programs such as the PAK-FA or J-XX programs which incorporate many foreign parts from Europe/Israel.

I think what Schumaker talked about was the fact that many engineers and scientists working in American institutes and corporations are indeed foreign born, especially Chinese and Indians. In the US, majority of the graduate students in science and engineering schools are Chinese and Indians and most of them end up staying in the US and working for American institutes. So American designs also get foreign influence since most of these people got majority of their education in their homeland. And when they designed the system, their thought process is definitely influenced by what they had been taught previously. This includes what they learned in their homeland. I have an uncle who works for NASA and one of his main projects is to develop an aerodynamic theory that he first developed when he worked as an engineer in China (Shenyang, actually). So is the US using Chinese technology? In this case, yes. And this kind of things occurs often in American scientific institutes. Many visiting scholars brought their projects with them when they came to the States and c ontinue working them. This is often the case in Biology. How do I know? I am a biochemist and I have worked with many foreign visiting scholars from all over the world (Chinese, Japanese, Danish, German, British and Australian). Many of them continue to work on their projects that they developed when they were in their home country. And many of these projects stay in our labs and have been continued even when these foreign visiting scholars have left and gone back to their own country. So yes, we borrow from others, heavily. Let's face it. This is why the US is the world leader in technology. Have you seen how many "foreign faces" in high tech companies, like Google, Intel, Apple, Microsoft, etc?

And talking about stealing/borrowing technology, both nuclear and space programs in the US are indeed German in origin. If you look at the list of all the scientists involved in these programs, most of them are Germans. And instead of taking bits and pieces, the US simply took the entire German program and moved it over to the US. Some of the most important members were actually proven Nazi war criminals. The bioligcal wepaons program in the US also borrowed a lot from Japan after WWII. When Japan was defeated, the US took all their biological weapons data (aka the unit 731, I think)
With that said, I think we should leave this topic alone...

 

[Schumacher]

...........
Well if you are talking about Chinese scientists, they came here by their own will. America actually does not depend highly on China/Japan/Europe for our Military technology, we do purchase the occasional electronics from Europe or the occasional optics from Japan but for the most part, we did the thinking, we did the building, and we did the construction.

As I've said before, the guy was an Engineer that worked directly on the B-2, he wasn't working for a Civilian firm that had relations with the B-2.

Well, the people who are accused of selling the techs are also doing it on their own free will. America's dependence on foreign scientists is far more widespread than just military, it's the entire civilian high tech commercial and academic sectors which form the foundation of America's military prowess.