J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

Status
Not open for further replies.

SamuraiBlue

Captain
You guys need to chill!!
Being too provocative about attacking another nation, read this to consider what is the present comparison;
China Has Big Plans for a New Stealth Fighter by 2035
But could Beijing's new plane really outclass the F-35?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
claims to be rapidly advancing artificial intelligence capabilities for a next-generation stealth fighter slated to emerge by 2035, according to a Chinese government-backed
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
citing the chief designer of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

The description of technical plans and systems applications offered by the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
appears to mirror that which is often described about the F-35, meaning that it has an autonomous computerized ability to gather, organize and present an array of otherwise disparate pools of information for pilots.

Quoting J-20 designer Yang Wei, the paper states, “a future fighter jet will generally require a longer combat range, longer endurance, stronger stealth capability, a larger load of air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons, and the functionality to provide its pilot with easy-to-understand battlefield situation images and predictions.”

The emphasis of technologies engineered to provide pilots with “easy to understand” warzone intelligence aligns almost exactly with the often-discussed F-35 “sensor fusion.” In an F-35, data from 360-degree cameras, long-range electro-optical targeting, navigational details, threat warning systems and other variables such as speed, altitude and angle of approach, are all compiled, distilled, analyzed, integrated and presented to pilots on a single screen..... to read further, click on the link above

He hints to his own news source that J-20 is not at the same level of F-35 in terms of on board battle situation data analysis systems yet and will not be read for the next 15 years.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
If the world's armed forces had a way of knowing where every enemy's plane or any other target is, even most of the time, then there'd hardly be a need for planes. everyone would just spam missiles.

But actually knowing how many targets there are, actually identifying those targets, and knowing where they are at which point in time, and sustaining that knowledge almost all-around the clock is the single hardest thing to do in warfare.

And thus a huge arsenal of missiles would be useless. as they would not have targets designated.

At best, one could hope to continuously poke holes in the runways - probably 3-4 missiles per runway would be enough to guarantee it being non functional (some misses are unavoidable). For several hours, or at best half a day, until the runway is repaired.

Counting all the runways, taxiways that could be used as runways and various prepared highway stretches there are - there might be a need to keep 150 targets shut for several hours to half a day. That's, say, 500 missiles per one "wave" and 1500 missiles per day, providing no malfunctions and providing no missile interceptions. So 4 days to spend an arsenal of, say, 6000 missiles. And contain the enemy to just carrier borne planes and VTOL planes which could use even shorter runway pieces. At the same time, all other target types would require additional missiles.

I think we've already had this discussion before.

You don't need massed missile strikes every single day.

Say you had 3 waves of 500 missiles over the course of 3 hours, which works out as 1500 missiles.
Your average F-35 will be on the ground for 1-2 of those missile strikes, because they have to refuel and rearm.
How many aircraft will actually survive on the ground?

And afterwards, the airbases and the surviving aircraft need time to regenerate.
How will they put up meaningful resistance to yet another follow-on attack by aircraft or even cheaper missiles?

Remember this is an illustrative cost comparison in the First Island Chain between: F-35 stealth fighters vs attacking cruise missiles

You can scale up the comparison from 100 F-35s to all 2000 F-35s which will be in service.
That would cost $200 Billion to procure.
If China only spent half that amount ($100 Billion), they could buy 80,000 land-attack cruise missiles like the JASSM-ER.
I know this is a fantastical figure, but it is just for illustration purposes.

And if we use your figure of 500 missiles per wave, China could launch 160 waves.
And if there are 6 waves per day, that is 3000 missiles per day.
It would be extraordinary if there were any F-35s still remaining after just 10 days (60 waves with a total of 30,000 incoming missiles)

There would still be another 50,000 missiles in reserve.

---
And we are entering an era with thousands of surveillance satellites, providing near real-time surveillance.

So follow on missile strikes and airstrikes can be tailored to the target.

---

So in conclusion.

From the Chinese perspective, for China to counter more F-35s, it's better to build more missiles than try to match them with more J-20s
 
Last edited:

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
You guys need to chill!!
Being too provocative about attacking another nation, read this to consider what is the present comparison;


He hints to his own news source that J-20 is not at the same level of F-35 in terms of on board battle situation data analysis systems yet and will not be read for the next 15 years.

You're better off asking people to chill without posting an article from the national interest and basing an argument off it.



It's like the author thinks "sensor fusion" is something that the F-35 invented and a categorical difference in capability rather than a spectrum.

It's telling that the author chose to interpret Yang Wei's statements as implying those capabilities for a future fighter jet were reminiscent of F-35 rather than a generation ahead of F-35.
Of course, it's really not a surprise that an author from the national interest would literally choose the most pandering and least charitable way of interpreting Yang Wei's words (which it seems like they only got from the Global Times rather than looking at the original paper).

They literally ask of a plane that is meant to be fielded in 2035 -- "but could Beijing's plan really outclass the F-35" -- which is not an exactly subtle way of saying they don't think the PLA's current or foreseeable aircraft are equal or superior to the F-35... that might be something else for them to tackle first before trying to speculate about PLA 6th generation efforts.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I look way beyond that and from the big picture.

Yes building more missiles, so what anybody can build missiles. Iran can build missiles too. Missiles manufacturing is not high end manufacturing. Nothing to be proud if a country can crank out alot of missiles at fast rate.

But big picture, in terms of China able to compete with US, technology, hightech manufacturing is the basis.

The manufacturing ability of cranking out high end planes is crucial measuring stick. If US is a 10 and China is around 7 then its still OK. Within parity. Currently i give China a 3, too much parity

Think about it.

The J-20 is already in Low Rate Initial Production.
Given China's manufacturing capability, it would be straightforward to move from low-rate production to mass production, if they chose to do so.

So you state that *cranking out large numbers of high end planes is crucial measuring stick in terms of China competing with US in technology*

As a general statement that is true.

But if China were to follow your suggestion in cranking out large numbers of J-20 to counter the numbers of F-35, it would be a waste of resources when missiles are more cost-effective.

Instead, if China wanted to match the US in terms of hi-technology, China would be better off investing those resources into COMAC to build world-class civilian passenger planes.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Guys, if you want to discuss tactics and strategies find a more relevant thread for that. This thread is already littered with off-topic discussions that ran for pages, let's not make it worse.

Agreed.

Everyone, consider this a warning, and stop these discussions about regional offensive counter air tactics and discussions about procurement and force balance. This isn't the thread for it.

@AndrewS, @nastya1, and @ougoah as well, I'm looking at you in particular.

Any further posts will be deleted.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Flip them around so we can see the engines.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

AjWWQvh.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top