J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII


defenceman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi what russians have in their factory for j20 suppose WS/15 is not coming up to the expectations ( in the current) scenario and WS engines the desired one for j20 is giving any problems for the production line
if any member with knowledge about if possible to answer
thank you
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
Would j20 be used at china -india border?
It's not at the moment because the Indians have totally backed off and surrendered parts of two disputed regions. If however the Indians come back for a fight, then it's uncertain. IAF doesn't have Rafales ready for fighting. It takes many years for pilots and ground crew and the commanding structure to get trained on new fighter and then develop tactics after all this. Plus they've only got 2 or 3 delivered into IAF so far I think.

The most capable fighters in IAF are the Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000. The Mig-29s are very old and the French fighters carry better weapons than even the MKI. Most of the western and newer Indian missiles are not yet integrated onto the MKI and even then the Astra has pretty poor range, no dual stage motor/s, no dual seekers, and India doesn't have much experience at all developing high end missile software and hardware components. Astra being their first attempt. Meanwhile Chinese ones have been learning from western missile tech and leading ones too since the Sino-Soviet split and built upon those lessons many generations already. PL-12s will suffice, no need for even PL-15s and PL-21, PL-xx unless they just want to fire some for live testing.

J-20 should be used in case of IAF vs PLAAF. It'll be a once in a lifetime opportunity to verify training, tactics, and lessons learned can be applied to modify them and implement in further training with PAF in future. If JF-17 and F-16 could absolutely devastate IAF, Indian air defences, blind and subdue communications and radars, then what would J-10C + J-16 + J-20 + hundreds of UAVs + dedicated early warning, AWACS, tankers, dedicated electronic warfare, and superior air defence achieve? Even if PLARF spares Indian airfields from ballistic missile attacks and PLA spares them from receiving hundreds of CJ-10. Could explain why the Indians totally gave up on their claims in Galwan and Pangong Tso in the span of a few weeks and officially announced it lol all without firing even a bullet.
 

Inst

Senior Member
India is scheduled to receive Rafales on July 27th or thereabouts. They'll be equipped with Meteor, but the problem with Meteor is that it doesn't have an AESA seeker and can thus be jammed by Chinese AESA radars. I also did some research on relative capability of PL-15 vs Meteor; Meteor is rumored to have around 80-100 km of effective range, while the PL-15 should have between 67 to 100 km of effective range. And the PL-15 is purportedly AESA-equipped, so if the Rafales have AESA installed, the PL-15 should be able to survive their jamming.
 

muddie

Junior Member
It's not at the moment because the Indians have totally backed off and surrendered parts of two disputed regions. If however the Indians come back for a fight, then it's uncertain. IAF doesn't have Rafales ready for fighting. It takes many years for pilots and ground crew and the commanding structure to get trained on new fighter and then develop tactics after all this. Plus they've only got 2 or 3 delivered into IAF so far I think.

The most capable fighters in IAF are the Su-30MKI and Mirage-2000. The Mig-29s are very old and the French fighters carry better weapons than even the MKI. Most of the western and newer Indian missiles are not yet integrated onto the MKI and even then the Astra has pretty poor range, no dual stage motor/s, no dual seekers, and India doesn't have much experience at all developing high end missile software and hardware components. Astra being their first attempt. Meanwhile Chinese ones have been learning from western missile tech and leading ones too since the Sino-Soviet split and built upon those lessons many generations already. PL-12s will suffice, no need for even PL-15s and PL-21, PL-xx unless they just want to fire some for live testing.

J-20 should be used in case of IAF vs PLAAF. It'll be a once in a lifetime opportunity to verify training, tactics, and lessons learned can be applied to modify them and implement in further training with PAF in future. If JF-17 and F-16 could absolutely devastate IAF, Indian air defences, blind and subdue communications and radars, then what would J-10C + J-16 + J-20 + hundreds of UAVs + dedicated early warning, AWACS, tankers, dedicated electronic warfare, and superior air defence achieve? Even if PLARF spares Indian airfields from ballistic missile attacks and PLA spares them from receiving hundreds of CJ-10. Could explain why the Indians totally gave up on their claims in Galwan and Pangong Tso in the span of a few weeks and officially announced it lol all without firing even a bullet.
The only reason I don't see the PLAAF deploying J-20s in a Sino-Indian conflict is that China doesn't want data to be recorded and potentially shared with the world, namely the U.S. This is especially true given that a potential Sino-Indian conflict is expected to be short in duration and existing 4th gen PLAAF fighters are more than enough to handle the IAF.

Radar data on J-20s could be very valuable for the U.S. / NATO to develop countermeasures. IMO J-20s would be only used if the PLAAF expects to engage F-22s or F-35s in the pacific or Taiwan strait where the gloves come off.

The U.S. is extremely protective of the F-35 and is careful not to expose any details of it to countries like China or Russia. If you recall the Japanese F-35 crashing in the ocean, the U.S. literally threatened both China and Russia to not go looking for its debris in the ocean.
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
The only reason I don't see the PLAAF deploying J-20s in a Sino-Indian conflict is that China doesn't want data to be recorded and potentially shared with the world, namely the U.S. This is especially true given that a potential Sino-Indian conflict is expected to be short in duration and existing 4th gen PLAAF fighters are more than enough to handle the IAF.

Radar data on J-20s could be very valuable for the U.S. / NATO to develop countermeasures. IMO J-20s would be only used if the PLAAF expects to engage F-22s or F-35s in the pacific or Taiwan strait where the gloves come off.

The U.S. is extremely protective of the F-35 and is careful not to expose any details of it to countries like China or Russia. If you recall the Japanese F-35 crashing in the ocean, the U.S. literally threatened both China and Russia to not go looking for its debris in the ocean.
The world isn't the USA and the USA isn't the world.

India doesn't have any serious SIGINT aircraft, ships, vehicles, satellites, or equipment. Even if they did eventually reveal some primitive SIGINT capabilities, they are so limited they won't be giving the Indians let alone the US any seriously compromising information. Could even be a good chance to feed some false data. Spectrum dominance means being able to control the wavelengths, refusing and feeding desired data, corrupting your enemy's understanding of the digital battlefield even further than they are able to realise.

The US has been using F-22s and F-35s all over the middle east. Israel has used the F-35. Most missions are limited but they've been used. India being able to gather any worthwhile information is a huge if. You can tune your RCS. It doesn't have to be minimal all the time.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
India is scheduled to receive Rafales on July 27th or thereabouts. They'll be equipped with Meteor, but the problem with Meteor is that it doesn't have an AESA seeker and can thus be jammed by Chinese AESA radars. I also did some research on relative capability of PL-15 vs Meteor; Meteor is rumored to have around 80-100 km of effective range, while the PL-15 should have between 67 to 100 km of effective range. And the PL-15 is purportedly AESA-equipped, so if the Rafales have AESA installed, the PL-15 should be able to survive their jamming.
That's overly simplified.

The Meteor uses a seeker of the same family as the MICA and ASTER missiles and is a known and proven technology.
Also no aircraft is gonna fly straight into a missile while hoping it can jam it successfully - we will gonna see F-pole engagements which the ramjet will create a no-escape zone way larger than the Chinese PL-12 and PL-15 capacities.
 

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