J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII


Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
please do not act annoyed as I wasn't trying to offend. isn't this forum a place to share thoughts in a civil manner? and excuse me if this topic had been discussed ad nauseum, I simply wasn't aware. But I'll stop.

I'm not annoyed and I also do not feel offended, all I wanted to note is that this has been discussed more than once and so far no new arguments were brought forward. As such in order to not repeat again and again the same discussion those who are interested, those who do not know the arguments are those who are new might look at this - oe better these - discussions on previous pages instead of repeating the same story again.
 

taxiya

Colonel
Registered Member
I have marked the area in question in the attached photo. What I mean is that the sloped angle at the back of the bay shows there is some vertical space left in the bay allowing two additional missiles to be sort of "stacked" below the existing 4 missiles. The problem is that is it hard to get a precise measurement of how much that additional space in the vertical direction actually is. But it is not a stretch to see that it is possible to utilize that additional space for more (or bigger) weapons.
That slopped area is there for aerodynamic reasons and it can not be reused as you have suggested. There is a paper studying the air turbulence and its impact on aircraft control and stability when the bay doors are opened. The paper also studied the force distribution of that turbulence inside the bay. The final geometry of the bay is determined based on the study. In the paper it specifically mentioned that the big slop at the end and a small slop at the front is needed to reduce the turbulence.
 

benny

New Member
Registered Member
Show me a version of the J-20 with canards, but without tailfins.



IMO, if a strike variant of the J-20 is desired, moving the engine off center as with the Su-57 is desirable.

There's roughly 8-10 meters available on the J-20 in length if a channel is placed between the engines. Making it 1.4 meters wide (or adding 700mm spacing), it could theoretically fit the DF-21D in terms of diameter, but not in length (would need 10.7 meters to squeeze it in). Making it 1 meter wide, it could fit the Kinzhal missile, making the J-20 an excellent striker.

====

What's come up recently is that the NGAD has taken its first flight, and likely it'll be a tailfinless UHF-stealth optimized air superiority fighter / interceptor aimed at taking out Chinese AEW&C. This makes it even more imperative for the Chinese to continue to develop the J-20 platform.

A canard-ed tailless J-20, for instance, would be an excellent strike fighter, but to make it fully a UHF-stealth fighter both the tailfins and the canards would have to go.

But relying on TVC for pitch and yaw control would be quite a challenge. The advantage of the J-20's canards is that the canards make the development of the J-20 into a TVC-dependent fighter much easier; a strike variant wouldn't necessarily need the same hard maneuvering as a an air superiority variant so removing the tailfins would further decrease risk and allow experience in working a tailfinless TVC aircraft's aerodynamics.

Once the TVC has become fully mature, then the J-20 can evolve into a NGAD-like configuration, with neither tailfins nor canards and very strong UHF-stealth.

If Chinese engine thrust continues to increase, the interceptor version (i.e, the NGAD) with neither canards nor tailfins could be comparably maneuverable as the strike and dogfight versions.
Just saw your request. Sorry for the late reply, anyway here it is. J-20 without vertical stabilisers. I also added a copper tint on the canopy to simulate the indium tin oxide coat found on F-22's canopy.
 

Inst

Senior Member
Just saw your request. Sorry for the late reply, anyway here it is. J-20 without vertical stabilisers. I also added a copper tint on the canopy to simulate the indium tin oxide coat found on F-22's canopy.
Now, I'm seriously asking for too much here; a tailfinless J-20 is something I've wanted to see for ages, but...

Say the engines get moved to where the rear ECM housing is right now. Extend the wings slightly to the rear to connect into the former ECM housing. Add a triangle for ECM between the current engines.

That'd basically be my "strike J-20", i.e, a J-20 with enough weapons bay capacity to carry both heavy interception missiles like the PL-21 as well as ALBMs in the Kinzhal or DF-21D class.
 

benny

New Member
Registered Member
Now, I'm seriously asking for too much here; a tailfinless J-20 is something I've wanted to see for ages, but...

Say the engines get moved to where the rear ECM housing is right now. Extend the wings slightly to the rear to connect into the former ECM housing. Add a triangle for ECM between the current engines.

That'd basically be my "strike J-20", i.e, a J-20 with enough weapons bay capacity to carry both heavy interception missiles like the PL-21 as well as ALBMs in the Kinzhal or DF-21D class.
Here it is, the J-20 Stealth Strike Fighter. I must admit this was tough to do, as seen it's as not smooth as I wanted it to be.
Engines farther apart hypothetically had made more space for belly weapon's bay area.. Possible set backs, due to engine repositioning the Y-duct intake is gone, the starboard PL-10 missile bay probably shrunk if not eliminated and must be put into somewhere else. Also If this is to be a strike fighter variant, this jet should be dual seater. This configuration reminds of F-14 because of the big rear gap..
 

Totoro

Captain
VIP Professional
The strike variant of J-20 might best be discussed further here:


I've already replied to some thoughts you've proposed in that topic.
 

Temstar

Junior Member
Registered Member
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话说21号大黄鸭17年9月19日中午展翅高飞以后,军工兔终于长长的舒了一口气,好歹这才是真正的鳖版花冻机啊,以前那些鸭子用的都是军工兔精心改装过的毛熊货,换了不少自己的东东,但结构没变,性能提高了个位数而已。可以称之为兔子用自己的实力改进的俄毛花冻机,勉强算小半个国产吧。兔子有自己的梦想,没有山寨31。太行改装团队一直在按部就班忙碌,首飞到今年拿奖,也证明了A类大鸭子的即将参军。
14吨*2的推力带着大鸭子散步都是一马赫以上只是小菜一碟,重要的是突然发现鸭子肚子里有的地方没排上用场?咋办呢?不行就填鸭呗!加两个蛋?没问题!亲,要不再加个座?NO,NO.NO,我是A,加了就成2B了。就这样吧,过几天大鸭子们就要走了,去哪儿我不知道,这几天成都阴雨连绵,今天下午难得晴空万里,鸭子们都在扑腾呢!
小鸭子还在继续孵化中,大鸭子的新产房也修好了,紧挨着卫校,大门朝土龙路,有内部道路直通鸡场,什么四条线?扯蛋,今后大鸭子都会出生在新产房,等小鸭子不下蛋以后,会装修鸭舍,接着孵化大鸭子。别问我是怎么知道的,看门的大爷告诉我的,我贿赂了他一包大前门。
最近局势吃紧,军工兔们也忙啊。但是鸭子们也不是一天两天就能养大滴,急也没用呀!扩大养殖规模也有周期啊,这不,鸡场那头又在搭建鸡窝,呵呵,明明住的是鸭子,还叫鸡窝,真搞笑,兔子是不是有病啊?两个五联排的,钢构都成型了,就是不知道青羊城管会不会强拆,毕竟成都是个国际大都市,搭这么多鸡窝鸭棚会影响市容市貌的。30多个违章建筑很可怕的。
对了,文家场派出所什么时候改名叫蔡桥派出所了?在它面前玩单反那风险可是厕所里打灯笼--找死。还是用我的OPPO吧,不过也没用,纳米图,自嗨一下得了。万恶的132,修那么高,那么长的围墙,真羡慕那些住在青羊工业园三楼的同志们。
好了,不胡说了,再过一会儿溜出去,争取能去西门上,看看我心爱的大鸭子还在扑腾没,尤其是她那性感的小屁屁,不知道什么时候扭起来!
Big duck = J-20, duck is chinese for canard.
Big yellow duck = that one J-20 that flew with yellow primer paint
Little duck = J-10

Overall take according to this rumour:
The first production run of J-20 is powered by AL-31, although this author claims it has been modified somewhat by China which result in some minor performance improvements.
The prototype J-20 in yellow primer paint is in fact a prototype J-20A, powered by two WS-10 of some sort, totalling 14 tons of thrust each. It's not clear if J-20A will have TVC nozzles at this point. Twin WS-10 allows supercruise. In addition this resulted in increase in size of the main weapon bay which allows the J-20A to carry six PL-15. Rumours of a twin seat version is false. The rumours of 4 production lines for J-20 is false, instead they will be built at a new facility which is nearly ready. Once J-10 production ends their production line will also be switched to J-20.

Take this rumour as you will
 

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