Some neighbors will make noise on media that they detected chinese presence near their territories. Some even like to brag that they detected J-20. Remember India?
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J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
broadsword
Brigadier
Maybe S Korea, but not Japan.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I would say it’s the opposite. J20s rarely fly in international waters or close to adversary sensors with Luneburg lenses deployed. That’s literally the whole point of making available the internal space to have a retractable Lunburg lense in the first place.
As for why, it’s the same reason SSNs try to sneak up on adversary ships and subs during peace time. To test both your own and potential adversary capabilities to feed into combat planning.
This would be done in extremely careful ways to minimise the risk of detection and revealing sensitive signature data. And it would be made easier by the fact that it will be the PLAAF that decides when and where they probe, as well as how close they push and how long they stay.
Even if they miscalculate and an adversary asset comes close, they always have the option to deploy their luneburg lense to mask the true radar signature of the J20.
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PLEASE, is there any evidence to support this claim?
This is like comparing apples to oranges. SSN track enemy ships or submarines can obtain their signal characteristics, the rewards are proportional to the risks. So what are you trying to achieve by not carrying a Luneburg lens in peacetime?
As I said, if the other party remains silent, how do you know when you are too close? How do you know if the other party has detected you?
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A quick one, before your inevitable ban at the rate you’re going, if I may.
When the US (think it was a USAF general) reported that the J-20 had been used in F-35 intercepts, and that they were also impressed with how they worked together with KJ-500s… do you think their Luneberg lenses were deployed?
Yes, without a doubt. Why not?
In fact, there are many misunderstandings circulating online regarding the PACAF Commander Wilsbach's comments on the J-20. Many people have interpreted his words based on their own wishes. If you are really interested, it is best to listen to what he actually said at the time.
Please pay special attention to distinguishing which information is about “F-35 get close to J-20”, and which information cannot be directly associated with that specific scenario.
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Overall, in the totality of the comments or indicators or rumours about J-20 operating in international airspace/outside of Chinese borders, there is nothing to date from anyone or anything about how stealthy or non-stealthy J-20 is or isn't.
Without anyone directly making a statement of J-20's detectability in context of whether it has luneberg lens deployed or not, and without being able to tally that up against a "definitive record" of J-20 flight activities, all claims about how supposedly J-20 has operated at XYZ location without being detected is rubbish.
Essentially
1. We don't know which instances or where J-20 has actually operated, and the PLA aren't going to tell us either
2. We don't know which instances or where J-20 may or may not have been detected or tracked by others, and they aren't going to tell us either
So based on the above, I recommend everyone apply the above principle to J-20 flight activities and their detection/non-detection by others.
In fact, I would advise to apply the above principle to not just J-20 and stealth aircraft activities, but to ALL Chinese military aviation and Chinese military activities overall.
You'll save yourself a bit of grief that way/
Without anyone directly making a statement of J-20's detectability in context of whether it has luneberg lens deployed or not, and without being able to tally that up against a "definitive record" of J-20 flight activities, all claims about how supposedly J-20 has operated at XYZ location without being detected is rubbish.
Essentially
1. We don't know which instances or where J-20 has actually operated, and the PLA aren't going to tell us either
2. We don't know which instances or where J-20 may or may not have been detected or tracked by others, and they aren't going to tell us either
So based on the above, I recommend everyone apply the above principle to J-20 flight activities and their detection/non-detection by others.
In fact, I would advise to apply the above principle to not just J-20 and stealth aircraft activities, but to ALL Chinese military aviation and Chinese military activities overall.
You'll save yourself a bit of grief that way/
Some basic rules in stealth vs stealth engagements:
1) Stealth planes are basically stealth in long distance (>100km), but unstealth in short distance (~10km).
2) When stealth fighters open their own radar, it will expose themselves.
3) So stealth fighters are always deployed with AEW&C planes hundreds km behind. Stealth fighters are in penetration mode, aka shutdown their own radar/lens, use AEW&C planes' radar/datalink as their INT source & guidance.
4) In peace time, stealth planes will open their reflectors when they're ready to be seen. When they don't want to be seen, they close their reflectors, and keep in penetration mode. In a word, they close reflectors in long distance, and open them in short distance w.r.t. enemy sensors (peace time).
US F-35s deployed in Japan regularly fly around East China Sea, to test China's air perimeter defense. In this case, China must send their stealth fighters, aka J-20, to intercept them. If China doesn't come, US will think their F-35 haven't been detected by China and provoke more. If China sends unstealth fighters like J-16/10 or Su-35, it's much inferior and can't teach US a lesson. This interception incident in 2022 is very like a combat scenario.
So, J-20 vs F-35 is a must. Both sides were supported with AEW&C planes. Both closed their reflectors at first.
First, China used its EW ground/air radars detected F-35s' possible intrusion & approximate location, and inform J-20 to intercept. Then, multiple J-20 took off, kept silent mode, until flew to a relatively short distance with F-35, suddenly opened their lens, which shocked US F-35 and AEW&C a lot. US finally detected J-20, but in a relatively close range, it's too late if it's in a war. That's why USAF generals keep praising J-20 & KJ-500 "professional".
Lens/Reflectors can be opened or closed according to specific scenario, and the two modes can be switched in a sec. But you won't open it in long distance, otherwise it's a waste for a stealth plane (keep it close can significantly squeeze enemy's reaction time/range). With AEW&C in back and RWR in stealth planes themselves, you can always know when to open lens (when you're approaching controversial areas).
When someone says he detects a stealth plane, it maybe useful, but mostly not, unless he can intercept it. Houthis once claim they detected a B-2, but was it helpful?
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Keep in mind that detecting stealth aircraft is not trivial even if luneburg is used to mask the true signature. In the Zhurihe Parade in 2017 or 2018 leaked document from radar crew coordinating aerial formations specifically stated to take special care tracking J-20(with luneburg) and J-10C because they can be difficult to track depending on angle.