J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[no_name]

Also the side weapon bay lacks lining and the canopy rim is unpainted. It might also have been testing without completed fittings.

 

[Alfa_Particle]

Also the side weapon bay lacks lining and the canopy rim is unpainted. It might also have been testing without completed fittings.

The lining is RAM tape that can easily be fitted later. However the trailing edge serrations are likely structural (since it directly affects how the RAS edges attaches to the main structure) and I don't see how serrations can just be "added" later on.

 

[no_name]

The lining is RAM tape that can easily be fitted later. However the trailing edge serrations are likely structural (since it directly affects how the RAS edges attaches to the main structure) and I don't see how serrations can just be "added" later on.

Yeah I was only referring to my two additional points not the original edge serration observation.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I hadn't realised this but it turns out the J-20A/S, for some reason, stopped serrating the trailing edge of the canards?
View attachment 175204
View attachment 175205

Odd since they definitely serrate the flaps still.

 

[plawolf]

Does the WS15 have TVC? If they do, then that’s why canard trailing edge serrates are no longer needed - during stealth optimised flight, the canards are locked in position with TVC used for small corrective adjustments and pitched movements instead. With the canards always aligned to present optimal frontal cross section, the trailing edge should never be visible to incoming radar waves to need the serrations.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Does the WS15 have TVC? If they do, then that’s why canard trailing edge serrates are no longer needed - during stealth optimised flight, the canards are locked in position with TVC used for small corrective adjustments and pitched movements instead. With the canards always aligned to present optimal frontal cross section, the trailing edge should never be visible to incoming radar waves to need the serrations.

It doesn’t have TVC. Also, it is not as if they ended trailing edge altogether. They still applied RAM to it. Perhaps improvement in RAM meant that they can achieve the same or better performance on a smaller segment like canard trailing edge but not something longer like the flaps.

 

[latenlazy]

It doesn’t have TVC. Also, it is not as my they didn’t treat the trailing edge altogether. They still applied RAM to it. Perhaps improvement in RAM meant that they can achieve the same or better performance on a smaller segment like canard trailing edge but not something longer like the flaps.

The primary material, internal structure, or coating of the canards might have also changed.

 

[taxiya]

I hadn't realised this but it turns out the J-20A/S, for some reason, stopped serrating the trailing edge of the canards?
View attachment 175204
View attachment 175205

On the other hand the vertical stablizers and ventral fins never had serration treatments. So maybe the canards were the "unusual" ones and now got same material, construction and coating as the others.

 

[Tessier2501]

Traditional method requires carving the whole bulkhead from a solid block of titanium alloy and what is cut out cannot be melted and reused.

Interesting, I'd like to know why. I've read some claims about oxidation and cutting fluid contamination, but does that make scrap less valuable than even ore?

Tensile and especially fatigue strength for 3D printed metal parts have come a long way over the last decade. Maybe I'll dig up some papers on this later but in general there are all sort of techniques today to get around the commonly cited deficiencies for this manufacturing process. There's even work being done now on 3D printed single crystal nickel components.

I have doubts about 3D printing macroscopic single-crystal structures. A single crystal within a single droplet formed by a single laser pulse is far from sufficient.

 

[latenlazy]

Interesting, I'd like to know why. I've read some claims about oxidation and cutting fluid contamination, but does that make scrap less valuable than even ore?

Main issue is that you need to reprocess the scraps. It’s not as simple as melt back down and reuse.

I have doubts about 3D printing macroscopic single-crystal structures. A single crystal within a single droplet formed by a single laser pulse is far from sufficient.

As of 2022 at least some groups have already made samples in the cm range.

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