J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

iBBz

Junior Member
Registered Member
If reduction in rear aspect RCS is the goal, the key would be to have a rear radar blocker such as one in F-22 and F-35. This however will penalize the design in weight and require high temperature absorber.
What is a rear radar blocker?
What is a high temperature absorber?
 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
What is a rear radar blocker?
What is a high temperature absorber?


F-22 and F-35 have afterburner diffuser, part which inject fuel for afterburner shaped in special manner that will block view to its turbine blade
This is example for F-22.
1713392136919.jpeg


Notice that the turbine blade are not visible. You can compare it with conventional AL-31 and WS-10

1713392245430.jpeg

High temperature radar absorber is of course radar absorbent material that is designed to operate in high temp. Given that the diffuser or radar blocker is going to get hot air directly from the turbine, typical radar absorbent paint will not work as they would get burned or lost its absorbing properties due to the heat. Therefore special absorbing material, maybe based on carbide is required
 

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
F-22 and F-35 have afterburner diffuser, part which inject fuel for afterburner shaped in special manner that will block view to its turbine blade
This is example for F-22.
View attachment 128253


Notice that the turbine blade are not visible. You can compare it with conventional AL-31 and WS-10

View attachment 128254

High temperature radar absorber is of course radar absorbent material that is designed to operate in high temp. Given that the diffuser or radar blocker is going to get hot air directly from the turbine, typical radar absorbent paint will not work as they would get burned or lost its absorbing properties due to the heat. Therefore special absorbing material, maybe based on carbide is required
It is not clear that the existing WS-10C on the J-20 does not have this. Regardless, the rear turbine is visible from a far narrower angle than the nozzle and so RCS reduction for the nozzle is meaningful regardless of the rear turbine signature.
 

iBBz

Junior Member
Registered Member
F-22 and F-35 have afterburner diffuser, part which inject fuel for afterburner shaped in special manner that will block view to its turbine blade
This is example for F-22.
View attachment 128253


Notice that the turbine blade are not visible. You can compare it with conventional AL-31 and WS-10

View attachment 128254

High temperature radar absorber is of course radar absorbent material that is designed to operate in high temp. Given that the diffuser or radar blocker is going to get hot air directly from the turbine, typical radar absorbent paint will not work as they would get burned or lost its absorbing properties due to the heat. Therefore special absorbing material, maybe based on carbide is required
That is good to know info, but I'm not sure how effective these diffusers would be considering the amount of scattering and bouncing around and the fact that nozzle coatings might shave off due to excessive heat and supersonic jet velocity. The converging diverging nozzle would definitely provide some help in hiding parts of the blades, but regardless of these benefits, they aren't enough to render flat nozzles irrelevant. Adding a flat nozzle to the equation would still improve LO regardless.

I made a post here a short while back outlining some of the benefits of flat nozzles over axisymmetric nozzles.

 
Last edited:

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
It is not clear that the existing WS-10C on the J-20 does not have this. Regardless, the rear turbine is visible from a far narrower angle than the nozzle and so RCS reduction for the nozzle is meaningful regardless of the rear turbine signature.

It doesn’t. Yang Wei revealed that J-20’s rear aspect RCS is larger than that of the F-22 during his presentation.
 

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
He said due to weakness in engine they had to go with round nozzles. He didn’t talk about rear engine block but it is obvious from high def photos we have of the inside of the nozzles that WS-10C doesn’t have them.
Which photo shows the nozzle cavity?
 
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