J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI


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siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
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The Indians just feel that they are the center of attention for all PLA operations ... which basically amounts to exaggerated self-importance. They think that their air force is of such high priority that the Chinese would send J-20s to the border. Classic self delusion.
You guys are getting too worked up about that article. If you read it closely, no where in the article did it actually confirm that the Su-30 acquired or locked onto the J-20. All of it is just speculation by the author. That said, what did you guys expect the IAF spokesperson to tell the general public? That the J-20 can't be detected and the IAF has no way to engage it? Of course they are going to play up their own capabilities unless they need fundings for better weapon acquisition. Need I remind you guys that the Chinese military also claimed that they could track F-22s a while back?
 

ougoah

Senior Member
Registered Member
You guys are getting too worked up about that article. If you read it closely, no where in the article did it actually confirm that the Su-30 acquired or locked onto the J-20. All of it is just speculation by the author. That said, what did you guys expect the IAF spokesperson to tell the general public? That the J-20 can't be detected and the IAF has no way to engage it? Of course they are going to play up their own capabilities unless they need fundings for better weapon acquisition. Need I remind you guys that the Chinese military also claimed that they could track F-22s a while back?
I must have missed it when Chinese military officials made a claim they could track the F-22. If PLA officials actually stated this, they at least support the claim with their claimed "anti-stealth" radars. Maybe the Chinese officials wanted to send a statement or possibly sell these radars in the future. The Indian IAF chief was talking about the MKI. PLAAF currently is in possession of Irbis radar which is far superior to its predecessor, Bars radar on MKI. If Bars can spot J-20 at certain range, Irbis should easily do better. If this is the case, why is PLAAF claiming complete superiority of 5th gen over 4th gen in their tests and exercises. Why does it continue to order J-20s without massive overhaul of design from CAC. If J-20 is determined to be less than ideal, we should immediately see a pause in production and updates made to J-20. Therefore the Chinese officials making such a statement re F-22 is at least slightly more believable because there is an absence of evidence to suggest they definitely cannot detect F-22. Whereas the Indian official's claim is almost impossible to be true unless one assumes that the PLAAF and CAC are massively corrupted through and through, while making no effort to correct its inability to even match IAF let alone a superior force.
 

by78

Brigadier
I know I am late to the party as 4 pages have turned. But I can't resist protesting that "machine translation (between unrelated language families) is a torture to the ears".:mad:

Please ignore my protest to save the thread. :D
All inane gibberish are torture to the ears, but some people seem to prefer it. Some like classical music, others prefer rap.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
You guys are getting too worked up about that article. If you read it closely, no where in the article did it actually confirm that the Su-30 acquired or locked onto the J-20. All of it is just speculation by the author. That said, what did you guys expect the IAF spokesperson to tell the general public? That the J-20 can't be detected and the IAF has no way to engage it? Of course they are going to play up their own capabilities unless they need fundings for better weapon acquisition. Need I remind you guys that the Chinese military also claimed that they could track F-22s a while back?
Except there was every chance that the Chinese military did exactly that.

There has never been any pattern of the Chinese military misleadingly exaggerating its capabilities. If anything, the Chinese military has a consistent history of doing the exact opposite and downplaying their capabilities.

China is known to have heavily invested in anti-stealth radar tech over a multi-decade period, and have a wide array of such radars operationally deployed.

American F22s were also operating from South Korean airbases, which would have put them in range of some of these Chinese anti stealth radars.

As such, China has the means and opportunity to detect American F22s.

OTOH, India has no operational anti stealth radars that anyone is aware of. The radar on its MKIs are X-band, the very band stealth fighters are most optimised against; there has been zero suggestion that J20s ever flew close enough to the India boarder for anything India possesses to even have a chance of picking them up. And the Indian military and media both have a long and well established track record of wild exaggerations and even outright lies.

It was entirely within the realm of possibility that Chinese anti-stealth radars did their job and picked up F22s (whether they achieved good quality tracking is a very different questions); whereas Indian conventional radars being able to detect J20s that were never even in range of them is entirely outside the realm of possibility.

To equate the two is frankly an insult against the PLA and reason itself.
 
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Jura

General
seeing
... their claimed "anti-stealth" radars. ...
I recalled, located May 16, 2017
google translation of the paragraph
观察者网军事评论员表示,我国雷达技术已经进入了一个“井喷”期。这个机动营及其所装备的新型雷达,只是改革强军大潮中的“冰山一角”。仅仅是在2016年的珠海航展上,我国就展出了JY-26、JY-27A、YLC-8B等一系列具备反隐身能力的大型有源相控阵雷达。这其中的任何一款配合前文所述的多种先进雷达,足以在任何国家组建起先进的反隐身国土防空雷达网络。我们有理由相信,在全世界爱好和平人民的“一带一路”上,必然会有着中国雷达守护的身影。
from
空军首个机动雷达营列装新型装备 紧贴实战提升战斗力
2017-05-16 17:58:05
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"Observer network military commentators said that China's radar technology has entered a "blowout" period. The mobile and its equipped with a new type of radar, just reform the tide of the army in the "tip of the iceberg." Only in the 2016 Zhuhai air show, China exhibited JY-26, JY-27A, YLC-8B and a series of anti-stealth capability of large active phased array radar. Any one of these is in line with the advanced radar described above, enough to set up an advanced anti-stealth air defense radar network in any country. We have reason to believe that in the world peace-loving people "along the way", will inevitably have the shadow of the Chinese radar guard."

(I noticed in Twitter
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picking one picture ...:
EDIT for years I've been wondering how so called anti-stealth radars fare against actual so called stealth aircraft, the Nyebo against PAKFA, the above Chinese gear against J-20 and so on; it's related to what some in Internet call "stealth mafia" which IF IT EXISTED would be the way how LockMart etc. pulls money out of the Pentagon by a ridiculous quest for negative decibels, applauded by fanbois LOL
 
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siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
I must have missed it when Chinese military officials made a claim they could track the F-22. If PLA officials actually stated this, they at least support the claim with their claimed "anti-stealth" radars. Maybe the Chinese officials wanted to send a statement or possibly sell these radars in the future. The Indian IAF chief was talking about the MKI. PLAAF currently is in possession of Irbis radar which is far superior to its predecessor, Bars radar on MKI. If Bars can spot J-20 at certain range, Irbis should easily do better. If this is the case, why is PLAAF claiming complete superiority of 5th gen over 4th gen in their tests and exercises. Why does it continue to order J-20s without massive overhaul of design from CAC. If J-20 is determined to be less than ideal, we should immediately see a pause in production and updates made to J-20. Therefore the Chinese officials making such a statement re F-22 is at least slightly more believable because there is an absence of evidence to suggest they definitely cannot detect F-22. Whereas the Indian official's claim is almost impossible to be true unless one assumes that the PLAAF and CAC are massively corrupted through and through, while making no effort to correct its inability to even match IAF let alone a superior force.
My point is that IAF officials are not in a position to say anything else, really. We know that they have a tendency to brag about their capabilities but in this case, they didn't actually say that they detected J-20s with Su-30's radar. That was just speculation by some Indian tabloid journalist (even worse braggarts). That said, the IAF is in a tough spot because their acquisition plans are in limbo. How do you boost confidence if you can't get Su-57s/Rafales in the near future? You tell everyone that what you've got is good enough to counter what the enemy's got.
 

ougoah

Senior Member
Registered Member
My point is that IAF officials are not in a position to say anything else, really. We know that they have a tendency to brag about their capabilities but in this case, they didn't actually say that they detected J-20s with Su-30's radar. That was just speculation by some Indian tabloid journalist (even worse braggarts). That said, the IAF is in a tough spot because their acquisition plans are in limbo. How do you boost confidence if you can't get Su-57s/Rafales in the near future? You tell everyone that what you've got is good enough to counter what the enemy's got.
I totally agree with this being an effort to convince the Indian public that their leaders and airforce has everything under control. Rafale is still nowhere near IAF, Su-57/ FGFA ditto. They need to reassure their people so this is the kind of stuff that contributes to the effort. It's hard to say for sure what is being said by the IAF chief. The article does imply that he said MKI can detect J-20. Doesn't matter what we think that means at this point.
 

siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
I totally agree with this being an effort to convince the Indian public that their leaders and airforce has everything under control. Rafale is still nowhere near IAF, Su-57/ FGFA ditto. They need to reassure their people so this is the kind of stuff that contributes to the effort. It's hard to say for sure what is being said by the IAF chief. The article does imply that he said MKI can detect J-20. Doesn't matter what we think that means at this point.
But everyone is acting as if the IAF spokesperson claimed that they physically spotted the J-20 with MKI radar. He never said that to the best of my knowledge.
 
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