J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Blitzo]

Your too late that was the first thing to ask before being rude for rest ask to Pékin... stop boring me...

Actually, calling your claim "bs" was pretty sensible considering it is ridiculous to think any of us would have any sort of reliable number for how much J-20 weighs.


Using wikipedia as a source for something like J-20's weight is nonsensical, considering we have no reliable primary source for that number.
There's no need to get too defensive, we're just all very vigilant towards poorly credible sources and unreliable numbers.

 

[b787]

Actually, calling your claim "bs" was pretty sensible considering it is ridiculous to think any of us would have any sort of reliable number for how much J-20 weighs.


Using wikipedia as a source for something like J-20's weight is nonsensical, considering we have no reliable primary source for that number.
There's no need to get too defensive, we're just all very vigilant towards poorly credible sources and unreliable numbers.

He is not doing something wrong, to consider you have to see other aircraft, a Su-27 and F-22 are in the 30, and 36 tonnes mark respectively, so a J-20 very likely is in the 36 tonnes, not less, Su-57 is in the range of 35 Tonnes too.

To give an idea F-35 fully loaded is in the 30 tonnes mark too, to think the F-22, Su-57 and J-20 are lighter is not realistic, but as he said better to ask Beijing

 

[b787]

So...because you think someone is rude to you you feel you're justified in exercising poor diligence and citing inaccurate (probably made up) information? How old are you?

General Characteristics
Primary Function: Multirole fighter
Prime Contractor: Lockheed Martin
Power Plant: One Pratt & Whitney F135-PW-100 turbofan engine
Thrust: 43,000 pounds
Wingspan: 35 feet (10.7 meters)
Length: 51 feet (15.7 meters)
Height: 14 feet (4.38 meters)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 70,000 pound class
Fuel Capacity: Internal: 18,498 pounds

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See that link is very likely one f the most accurate ones for F-35 Data, if you expect the larger twin engines Chinese J-20 weighs less, well be my guest, but you are out of reality, F-22, J-20 and Su-57 are in the 34-38 tonnes mark fully loaded, the lightest weight would be 34 tonnes but a 36 tonnes weight is reasonable

General characteristics
Primary function: air dominance, multi-role fighter
Contractor: Lockheed-Martin, Boeing
Power plant: two Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 turbofan engines with afterburners and two-dimensional thrust vectoring nozzles.
Thrust: 35,000-pound class (each engine)
Wingspan: 44 feet, 6 inches (13.6 meters)
Length: 62 feet, 1 inch (18.9 meters)
Height: 16 feet, 8 inches (5.1 meters)
Weight: 43,340 pounds (19,700 kilograms)
Maximum takeoff weight: 83,500 pounds (38,000 kilograms)
Fuel capacity: internal: 18,000 pounds (8,200 kilograms); with 2 external wing fuel tanks: 26,000 pounds (11,900 kilograms)
Payload: same as armament air-to-air or air-to-ground loadouts; with or without two external wing fuel tanks.
Speed: mach two class with supercruise capability

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In Fact a 36 tonnes mark is kind of very forgiving for an aircraft of its size, F-22 weighs 38 tonnes, so i would not discard a 36-39 tonnes for the larger fuselage J-20 but of course you wanted it as light as a feather

 

[kurutoga]

Although I think some of the responses were a bit too much, that 80,000 lb number seems to be a very rough estimation from some guy in either US or UK. Then it got converted to 36,288 kg as if that claim has FIVE significant digits. You see this sort of things in the news, too. "Chinese high speed train just exceeded 186.411 mph in a test ..." in fact it is just 300km/h, not as accurate with 6 significant digits.

36 tons could be a relatively reasonable guess, I'd say wikipedia should say 36 +/-5 tons just to show it is a wild guess, not an official number.

 

[latenlazy]

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See that link is very likely one f the most accurate ones for F-35 Data, if you expect the larger twin engines Chinese J-20 weighs less, well be my guest, but you are out of reality, F-22, J-20 and Su-57 are in the 34-38 tonnes mark fully loaded, the lightest weight would be 34 tonnes but a 36 tonnes weight is reasonable

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In Fact a 36 tonnes mark is kind of very forgiving for an aircraft of its size, F-22 weighs 38 tonnes, so i would not discard a 36-39 tonnes for the larger fuselage J-20 but of course you wanted it as light as a feather

Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[latenlazy]

Although I think some of the responses were a bit too much, that 80,000 lb number seems to be a very rough estimation from some guy in either US or UK. Then it got converted to 36,288 kg as if that claim has FIVE significant digits. You see this sort of things in the news, too. "Chinese high speed train just exceeded 186.411 mph in a test ..." in fact it is just 300km/h, not as accurate with 6 significant digits.

36 tons could be a relatively reasonable guess, I'd say wikipedia should say 36 +/-5 tons just to show it is a wild guess, not an official number.

I mostly agree with that sort of error range, but a +/- of 5 tons isn't trivial.

 

[Blitzo]

He is not doing something wrong, to consider you have to see other aircraft, a Su-27 and F-22 are in the 30, and 36 tonnes mark respectively, so a J-20 very likely is in the 36 tonnes, not less, Su-57 is in the range of 35 Tonnes too.

To give an idea F-35 fully loaded is in the 30 tonnes mark too, to think the F-22, Su-57 and J-20 are lighter is not realistic, but as he said better to ask Beijing

If he said that he personally estimated J-20 might be 36 tons or thereabouts, I wouldn't have a problem with an estimate.

The problem is that he presented it as if it was truth, i.e.: from a reliable source, whereas in reality he sourced it from wikipedia without a source.


The problem for me isn't the number that he gave, the problem is that he made it sound like the number was confirmed, when it most definitely is not.

 

[b787]

If he said that he personally estimated J-20 might be 36 tons or thereabouts, I wouldn't have a problem with an estimate.

The problem is that he presented it as if it was truth, i.e.: from a reliable source, whereas in reality he sourced it from wikipedia without a source.


The problem for me isn't the number that he gave, the problem is that he made it sound like the number was confirmed, when it most definitely is not.

his estimate was a good one even favorable for the J-20, If you consider F-35 weighs near 32 tonnes at max take off and F-22 close to 39 tonnes, so i think he gave even a very favorable weight, for example the smaller MiG-35 gets close to 30 tonnes.


The exact weight is classified at the moment, but a guess of 36-40 tonnes range is very likely the weight of the machine, however mat take off weight includes external warload.

A combat weight of 30-35 tonnes is very likely.

The only think why i would say F-22 could say weighs extra is the 800 kg extra of both TVC nozzles, the F-119, with respect Al-41, F-119 is very likely for example 500kg heavier than T-30 engine, but that only will add an extra tone of dead weight.

But J-20 has a longer fuselage so in my personal opinion J-20 is around 37 tonnes in a very light estimate or around 39 tonnes due to larger weapons bays and fuel capacity.

 

[Hyperwarp]

***
In Fact a 36 tonnes mark is kind of very forgiving for an aircraft of its size, F-22 weighs 38 tonnes, so i would not discard a 36-39 tonnes for the larger fuselage J-20 but of course you wanted it as light as a feather

I've heard rumors that the current J-20 is about 2 tonnes heavier than the F-22. So I think 40 tonnes for a aircraft the size of the J-20 is pretty good.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Let me remind everyone again: not only was Forbin's source on classified military information wikipedia, he also cited the MTOW of the aircraft, confusing it with full combat load. THEN he cited the WET thrust of WS-10X and used those "data" points to make a determination about its supercruise capability. Have you ever heard of something so ridiculous? LOL Even if you had the actual full combat load weight of J-20 AND the true dry thrust of WS-10X, you could still not make such a determination about supercruise because so much of it relies on aircraft design.

Assume J-20's weight by size? LOL By that logic, if you have a box at your house that's 3 cubic feet and has 20 pounds of stuff in it then you can assume that a box in my house with 4 cubic feet of volume has to have no less than ~27 pounds of stuff in it, huh?