J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

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Deino

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Dear Deino

I have never seen such a long-winded warning from a mod. You know, when a mod see members (doesnt matter here who they are) constantly ignoring his requests, he should take action to stop it. I am not a mod, and dont advocate banning members, but some action should be taken at some point.

Forgive this little rant, but its just that your plight in this thread is becoming painful to see.


No need to apologise and I really appreciate Your statement (like several others here too); thanks for Your open words.


@ all and esp. MiG-29:

First of all that long text was not meant as a “long-winded warning” but more a long explanation and a such in case it was misunderstood I either need to apologise or to explain a bit more:

First of all I did not ban him nor did I propose – I even mentioned that some remarks were don’t fit to him – but it is a general problem I noticed and that really makes me angry. As such I tried to explain – and YES I said I would like to forbid – such long discussions but on the other side I agree even if I rarely share his opinion he’s a valuable contributor with often a quite different view. BUT if I’m interested in the J-20 or any other planes and someone gets only a millimeter off the simple news You can be sure after about 4 post of links, sources and additional information we are that way off the topic so that You really don’t know what was either the original question or what’s the topic itself. That annoys me and that’s – at least IMO – is not good for the overall quality of SDF !

But now back to topic and I would be glad if MiG-29 will contribute again … but more in a balanced way.


Deino
 

Deino

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Hmmm .... :confused:
 

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Blitzo

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@ Deino

I'm not sure if Mig-29 has received any warnings yet, but if not he should have, with a follow up threat for a permanent ban as well.

I'm not trying to prod anyone into action per se, but many posters over the years have been warned and banned for less. And Mig-29 has derailed enough J-20 discussions enough times to certainly entail something.
 
Time for me to say a fair word despite all those mean stuffs I've said to him all the time.
First of all I think we must all say no matter how we see him, we should still recognize his talents. He's actually rather smart and knowledgeable, because there's no way he could've survived exchanges and debates between Engineer like this or anyone else for the matter, in a sustained manner, aside from ridiculous persistence and tremendous amount of knowledge. We all know he goes off-topics a lot, but honestly, I think this is a symptom that many people who are very knowledgeable in one field tend to share:
- In real life I do that a lot as well(you guys probably recognize my bad habit too in this forum already with my long-winded responses often), and I considered myself as the type with a lot of ideas. I often pull up psychological theories and international studies concepts to power my ideas
- My professor (Ralph Mistleberger if you ever are into learning more about sleeping circadian rhythms or you have sleeping problems) is also a very knowledgeable, respectable man, and he's conducted years of researches in his devoted topic. Very nice and makes very humorous jokes and comments when he talked about random experiences and stuffs, but when it comes to explaining something simple in his field of expertise, he goes off-topic by talking about massive amounts of research results from the many studies he's done before. He then shows you graphs that you'd think is a really screwed-up barcode, speak in jargons (free-running, innate, oscillinator..) If you didn't have coffee, enough sleep, or aren't particularly trying to focus, you'd end up wandering off into your own fantasy and sleep, which happens always. Why I say that is because once he gives us his lecture notes, his notes are so easy to understand, it deciphered everything he's saying like subtitles to all the stuffs he's said. Once you understand or have a background to what he's talking about, everything makes sense. So why did he do it? I'd think it's because he's got too much knowledge in that area, and often as they see everything intertwined, they can't get to the point without bringing something up first.

It's highly possible he could've had some valid arguments and ideas, but when you shrouded your idea in your own information without making clear of what you're trying to say, no one would understand, so it's pointless.
Etiquette-wise, he's able to maintain proper behaviors without resorting to ad hominem that we are often guilty of. That's something he does deserve some credit for. Furthermore, I must admit, I'd learned a great amount just simply watching their heated exchanges. I can't always tell who's right immediately, but I definitely say I'd learned a lot.

Finally however, one thing that is not excusable would be that he shot himself in the foot by posting it in here. We ALL WANT this thread to be pretty much a J20NN (J-20 News Network), with all the latest relevant updates and news to the J-20 and its development. Lite discussions are welcomed. However sadly he never grasped his understanding that because this thread is, and hence the audience, therefore we don't want no discovery premiere on aerodynamics that goes on forever. If he had started off in that other thread, I'm sure those of us who are bored and are interested in learning and debating would go into that thread and follow on the discussions.

Overall he's a brilliant guy, but just doesn't know how to "socialize" in a more relaxed manner and lacking understanding and skills of the "social environment" he's in. Despite everything, I'd say he did provide to this forum with a massive amount of knowledge of alternative viewpoints. He deserves to be credited for his contributions, despite how we may disagree or misunderstand, or simply not understand him. I'd say his alternative viewpoints are very valuable, and actually balances this forum otherwise.

I can say that overall this forum is very well-maintained in terms with the massive amounts of discussions that go through. We haven't really suffer from any serious bloodbaths because the rule of law is really well-maintained (consider mp.net and such where it's anarchy), but we tend to have a significant pro-China bias. Despite the bias, when it comes to Chinese military hardware, we fare pretty good already, and I won't feel we are too bias when discussing equipment(politic-wise it's another story). Even then, we should try and accept people who see things differently, and I'd say Mig is one of the few who's a moderate already otherwise, so learning from someone who can be seen as critical toward J-20 at times, actually exercises our brain, and is actually healthy for the forum. (consider groupthink as a serious phenomenon in most other forums.)
 
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Deino

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@ airsuperiority !

Thanks You so much !

Deino
 

Blitzo

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Agreed with airsuperiority -- but we still need to keep this J-20 thread from getting derailed with pages of Mig-29 posts... We've opened up special threads for that exact purpose but they all end up getting shut down for some reason.
 

kyanges

Junior Member
I think you guys had read too much into this. There is no "special function" or "distinct advantage" offered from this design. It is just a simple mechinism that CAC came up with that launch missle in a safe, clean manner whereas if you launch a missle directly from side weapon bay, you have to deal with 1000C+ exhaust on your weapon bay and body paint and a large force directly effect on the airframe, both harder to deal with than a mechical rack.

Keep in mind CAC has no incentive to stick to whatever design LM decided to put on F22, J-20 is not F22 and CAC is surely going to choose what they see as the most advantagous or the easiest to realize.

When I think of it that way, I wonder if the missile is really held far enough away from the body to avoid that sort of exhaust problem. I guess I agree that holding it away is has to help at least a little. ? .
 

lostsoul

Junior Member
When I think of it that way, I wonder if the missile is really held far enough away from the body to avoid that sort of exhaust problem. I guess I agree that holding it away is has to help at least a little. ? .

Also you could launch the missile when the plane is upside down ;)
 

Air Force Brat

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Agreed with airsuperiority -- but we still need to keep this J-20 thread from getting derailed with pages of Mig-29 posts... We've opened up special threads for that exact purpose but they all end up getting shut down for some reason.

That is very true and the reason Siege started the aerodynamics thread, which is under-utilized, but entertaining when it fires up. Thanks Guys, even though Sino D is China centric, I have learned so much, and been surprised by the bright and intelligent conversations, for those of you who live in the Northern Hemi, spring is here, possibly major snow Sunday is Central Obamastan, and although I enjoy DT, I appreciate the warm intellectual atmosphere, and the kindness and genuine wisdom of the mods on Sino Defense. The aerodynmics thread makes a convenient place to parks some of our posts when get in over our heads. LOL Brat
 
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siegecrossbow

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Still looking forward to the "insightful posts" on other forums on how this engineering solution is either inferior to that of the raptor or somehow indicates that the J-20 is a bomber :D.
 
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