J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[nkvd]

I thought i had missed something so thanks for the clarification Chuck

 

[latenlazy]

I extremely highly doubt parts printed from titanium powder would be anywhere remotely as strong as parts forged from a single titanium piece. It may be possible to sinter forge parts made from powdered titanium (I don't know), but even then the results would be much weaker than single piece solid forging.

My understanding is that it's a trade off between possible geometries and material strength. You might be able to print a shape that's more geometrically suitable for the type of force loads they're going to handle, even if the material has greater imperfections. That said, this probably applies more to areas which won't experience the highest force loads. Just my thoughts on the matter. Having someone with a background in material sciences may be able to elaborate on the matter.

 

[Rolead]

So what happens now to 2001/2 as the changes on 2011 appear so different that I assume that the characteristics of the flight envelope would change (?).

What would be the purpose of 2001/2 now, would they or can they be converted to be more like 2011 ?

Robert

 

[latenlazy]

So what happens now to 2001/2 as the changes on 2011 appear so different that I assume that the characteristics of the flight envelope would change (?).

What would be the purpose of 2001/2 now, would they or can they be converted to be more like 2011 ?

Robert

Maybe they can be converted, but it's more likely that they will simply keep them as is and use them to test the J-20's avionics and other subsystems. I imagine that if nothing else when the WS-15 is ready it will first go on 2001 and 2002 (or maybe they'll put it on 2011 if there are more frames for the 10 series, or maybe even if by the time the engine is ready they've moved on to a 20 series).

 

[chuck731]

Maybe they can be converted, but it's more likely that they will simply keep them as is and use them to test the J-20's avionics and other subsystems. I imagine that if nothing else when the WS-15 is ready it will first go on 2001 and 2002 (or maybe they'll put it on 2011 if there are more frames for the 10 series, or maybe even if by the time the engine is ready they've moved on to a 20 series).

I suspect 2001 and 2002 were mainly basic aerodynamic and mechanics test vehicles with little mission equipment or sensor other than what is needed for basic navigation, and no real stealth measure beyond what is embodied in the basic shape of the airframe. 2001 or 2002 might perform store carriage tests, but probably can't do store release tests.

I think 2011 probably has substantial amount of mission equipment, including sensors, interfaces, weapon and store management, etc, as well as surface stealth treatments. 2011 would be able to do weapon release tests, electronic signature and inteference tests, in-flight stealth validations.

There would be more development airframes, each closer to production configuration. There would be ones with full fuel bunkerage, inflight refueling probes, flight software mature enough to handle spins and other extreme flight attitudes , etc

I suspect on the inside 2001 and 2002 are not only fairly empty and rudimentary, but the lots of details also reflect earlier iterations of the interior and detailed structural design, or simple hacks to get the airframe flying, but which would be unacceptable in an airframe that must contain mission equipment and survive combat. The refinement to interior and detailed structure deign was undoubtedly on-going even while 2001 and 2002 were flying. So the 2011 and later aircraft would now have already depart fairly significant from the interior structural details of 2001 and 2002.

I am guessing 2001 and 2002 might do some more aerodynamic and mechanics tests, but after that they probably retire, or become subjects of destructive testing like damage tolerance tests and similar. Or they might be converted for other mechanics tests, like ejection seat operation during supercrusing, etc

 

[latenlazy]

I suspect 2001 and 2002 were mainly basic aerodynamic and mechanics test vehicles with little mission equipment or sensor other than what is needed for basic navigation, and no real stealth measure beyond what is embodied in the basic shape of the airframe. 2001 or 2002 might perform store carriage tests, but probably can't do store release tests.

I think 2011 probably has substantial amount of mission equipment, including sensors, interfaces, weapon and store management, etc, as well as surface stealth treatments. 2011 would be able to do weapon release tests, electronic signature and inteference tests, in-flight stealth validations.

There would be more development airframes, each closer to production configuration. There would be ones with full fuel bunkerage, inflight refueling probes, flight software mature enough to handle spins and other extreme flight attitudes , etc

I suspect on the inside 2001 and 2002 are not only fairly empty and rudimentary, but the lots of details also reflect earlier iterations of the interior and detailed structural design, or simple hacks to get the airframe flying, but which would be unacceptable in an airframe that must contain mission equipment and survive combat. The refinement to interior and detailed structure deign was undoubtedly on-going even while 2001 and 2002 were flying. So the 2011 and later aircraft would now have already depart fairly significant from the interior structural details of 2001 and 2002.

I am guessing 2001 and 2002 might do some more aerodynamic and mechanics tests, but after that they probably retire, or become subjects of destructive testing like damage tolerance tests and similar. Or they might be converted for other mechanics tests, like ejection seat operation during supercrusing, etc

The point is there are plenty of ways they can still use those two airframes, especially since they'll diminish in importance as development moves along.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I extremely highly doubt parts printed from titanium powder would be anywhere remotely as strong as parts forged from a single titanium piece. It may be possible to sinter forge parts made from powdered titanium (I don't know), but even then the results would be much weaker than single piece solid forging.

And what, exactly, is the proof of your well thought-out conjecture?

 

[chuck731]

And what, exactly, is the proof of your well thought-out conjecture?

If I have proof, then I wouldn't need the conjecture, would I now?

 

[Deino]

So guys ... what about a maiden flight today ?? I'm right now leaving home (7:35 h local time Germany) for school and since I'm on a hiking trip with my class I will only be back this evening (about 18:30 h).

So I'm sure CAC could use this timeframe to perform a nice maiden flight (unnoticed by poor Deino), post a bunch of full-size high-resolution images ... and I could be happe after the trip !??

Wouldn't this be a nice idea ??

Deino

 

[Blitzo]

So guys ... what about a maiden flight today ?? I'm right now leaving home (7:35 h local time Germany) for school and since I'm on a hiking trip with my class I will only be back this evening (about 18:30 h).

So I'm sure CAC could use this timeframe to perform a nice maiden flight (unnoticed by poor Deino), post a bunch of full-size high-resolution images ... and I could be happe after the trip !??

Wouldn't this be a nice idea ??

Deino

Are you a teacher (or a professor), deino?
What do you teach?