J-15 carrier fighter thread

Alfa_Particle

Junior Member
Registered Member
1) J-XDS will not be on WS-10s,
Never said that. It might though. My point is, it doesn't matter what engine it uses – a whole new ecosystem would still be introduced.

Both the J-15 and J-15T have been seen with WS-10s.
One prototype each as far as we're concerned.

That shows me they had every intention of putting the WS-10 on the J-15 family.
And now Yankee and Shilao said "maybe not." I'm not taking their words as gospel, but have you got better sources?

Mixing engines on the same air wing is most likely what the PLAN wants to avoid in the Yankee/Shilao scenario.
The J-35 is coming anyway and that's already introducing a whole another radically different ecosystem. Why not just train the 003 crew for WS-10 J-15T/Ds from the get-go?

PLAN will use domestic engines in future aircraft like the J-35 and the J-XDS.
Exactly. So why are they not getting this over with instead of relying on another country?

But the J-15 and WS-10 families might not be guaranteed for the second Type 003, 004 or 005 so re-engining them might be moot.

It all depends on whether they will need to build enough new J-15Ts to outfit air wings without mixing in older batches of J-15 variants and creating support for two engine types.
So, an F-14D situation. Exactly what I was questioning why the PLANAF isn't avoiding.

Is WS-10H spooling issue resolved.
Yes. It has never been a problem in any variant since the introduction of the contra-rotating spools. The performance/production rate of the WS-10 isn't the limiting factor here and that was mentioned in the video.

Is overall performance and TWR similar to latest AL-31F engine.
Yes. Every WS-10 variant from 10A on are superior to their Russian contemporaries.

Until and unless used frequently and in large quantities in seaborne conditions, one cannot come to certain conclusion what issues it may face while operating in seaborne condition.
This isn't an excuse. Are they just never going to use WS-10Hs because "they don't know how they'll really fare"? What in the positive feedback loop? You'll have to start somewhere.

4) If incase Russia is unable to provide engine due to certain war or any other issue who would be carrying out the mass testing of WS-10H engine. Whatever logistical issues which we are facing right now could turn out to be very big deal if war breaks out which involves China's interest. Should never be depended on foreign supplier (even if it's a close ally) when the alternative is readily available.

5) Indigenization of local parts and assembly is must and you can't be depended on foreign supplier and that to heart of the fighter plane.
That is exactly the concern that I'm stressing. But given how the WS-10H is already a viable option, I'm inclined to believe that the mass testing is already done.
 

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't buy the industrial diplomacy argument personally, there have been a lot of concrete examples historically and recently for the opposite.

As I'm understanding the situation - from the limited info and rumors/comments available, that is - this is simply a matter of bad timing.

By the time the specific WS-10 variant was brought to a TRL good enough and reliable enough to act as a proper replacement for the airframe, the number of aircraft already produced/in service with the legacy engine were too high to make the move desirable.

In other words, right now in 2025 it doesn't make sense to re-engine the aircraft already in service, and it doesn't make sense to simply change the engine in newly produced airframes and have them work together with the rest.

They didn't make it in time.

Maybe they will keep working on it, and have the airframes re-engine on an MLU down the line when it makes more sense.
Maybe they will simply not use the engine on the airframe in question, unless they have to (essentially developing it as an insurance option).
 
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Alfa_Particle

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't buy the industrial diplomacy argument personally, there have been a lot of concrete examples historically and recently for the opposite.

As I'm understanding the situation - from the limited info and rumors/comments available, that is - this is simply a matter of bad timing.

By the time the specific WS-10 variant was brought to a TRL good enough and reliable enough to act as a proper replacement for the airframe, the number of aircraft already produced/in service with the legacy engine were too high to make the move desirable.

In other words, it doesn't make sense to re-engine the aircraft already in service, and it doesn't make sense to simply change the engine in newly produced airframes and have them work together with the rest.

They simply didn't make it in time.
That is absolutely NOT an excuse for relying on other countries to power your naval air wing.

You're not trying to save money here. These are for war. Why are they not ironing out vulnerabilities ASAP? Especially factors that are extremely susceptible to the whims of other countries?
 

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
That is absolutely NOT an excuse for relying on other countries to power your naval air wing.

You're not trying to save money here. These are for war. Why are they not ironing out vulnerabilities ASAP? Especially factors that are extremely susceptible to the whims of other countries?
Relax. Also, there is no war coming, these are more or less boiler-plate procurement practices.

If PLA actually starts preparing for imminent conflict, you will know it. Immediately and without any question or hesitation.
 

Alfa_Particle

Junior Member
Registered Member
I am. Just capitalising words to imitate verbal emphases.

Also, there is no war coming, this are more or less boiler plate procurement practices.
Really now. Sure, let's assume that. That's more the reason to expel Russian engines out of their system ASAP then. Gonna wait till the conflict's tomorrow then start swapping?

If PLA actually starts preparing for imminent conflict, you will know it. Immediately and without any question or hesitation.
Cool bro. And?
 

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
Cool bro. And?
And stop being so dramatic? Your concern is axiomatically pointless.

If the variant as we say is ready for integration, then there is no way that an improbably sudden and dramatic supply change to the legacy engine can really affect future production (you have insurance), or existing operations (PLAN has all the spare parts and engines it needs for maintaining the fleet, it is how they procure stuff). They are not reliant on it, they need to expel nothing.

If the variant is not ready for integration or good enough for it, then it cannot be used in the first place as you emphatically insist so the whole argument if moot.

There are people that actually get paid to make these kind of decisions you know. And they know a lot more than we do.
Mind you, I'm not saying that you have to be a chef to appreciate a dish, I'm saying you have to stop being a Karen about it.
 

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
Engines used for naval aviation have to deal with much harsher environments such as higher temperature, salt and others. We all know how cheap PLA is. Navalized AL31F may simply be much cheaper.
this happens if they choose WS-10H for J-15T.

J-15 - AL-31
J-15T - WS-10H
J-35 - WS-21

its because of logistics and maintenance nightmare PLAN didn't select WS-10H. they don't want to deal with three different Engines. domestic option is ready to serve but its all PLAN decision.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
this happens if they choose WS-10H for J-15T.

J-15 - AL-31
J-15T - WS-10H
J-35 - WS-21

its because of logistics and maintenance nightmare PLAN didn't select WS-10H. they don't want to deal with three different Engines. domestic option is ready to serve but its all PLAN decision.
I’m sure J-15s have been relegated to training only. Their combat capabilities aren’t suitable to today’s environment anymore. So if PLAN went with WS-10H, there will be only two engine types to support.
 

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
I’m sure J-15s have been relegated to training only. Their combat capabilities aren’t suitable to today’s environment anymore. So if PLAN went with WS-10H, there will be only two engine types to support.
yup. Yankee and shilao confirmed in their podcast. PLAN don't want three different engines in their carrier fleet. but if older J-15 relegate to training only then there are chances J-15T might switch to WS-10H..

though we still have rumors regarding WS-10H soon to be enter in service with PLAN.. let see
 
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