J-10 Thread IV

[Blitzo]

Which 4.5 gen is around or below the 1m2 frontal rcs in fighter configuration?

Think the J10 (dunno if all the versions) can do it, but which others as well?

The super hornet weekend be a good example of that magnitude.

My overall point is that by now, the idea of 3-5m2 being a fighter sized target is giving oneself a significant advantage in terms of comparing equivalent radar "ranges" relative to most modern western radars and what they claim to advertise.


All of this doesn't really matter for the J-10C radar "at least" 200km equivalent statement, because we don't know the parameters of that number anyhow, but it is something to keep in mind.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

IMO, KF-21 would probably be the closest with semi recessed pylons. Since missiles are usually cylindrical which apparently have pretty big side RCS plus right angled fins etc, it'll be pretty hard for other 4.5th gen to get to around 1m2.

That's a 4.5 not even in production yet.

The super hornet weekend be a good example of that magnitude.

Yea, but what more?
Don't think the rafale qualifies or many other 4.5 gens?
Maybe also some of the newer/upgraded F16s

My overall point is that by now, the idea of 3-5m2 being a fighter sized target is giving oneself a significant advantage in terms of comparing equivalent radar "ranges" relative to most modern western radars and what they claim to advertise.

All of this doesn't really matter for the J-10C radar "at least" 200km equivalent statement, because we don't know the parameters of that number anyhow, but it is something to keep in mind.

No real disagreement

 

[Blitzo]

Yea, but what more?
Don't think the rafale qualifies or many other 4.5 gens?
Maybe also some of the newer/upgraded F16s

I wouldn't be surprised if the Rafale, with only a AAM loadout, would have a competitive RCS to the standard we are describing, especially as they have some conformal stations for BVRAAMs.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Rafale, with only a AAM loadout, would have a competitive RCS to the standard we are describing, especially as they have some conformal stations for BVRAAMs.

Hmm, yea i was a bit quick.

We can't decisively say for the smaller to medium ones, not to mention planes can go through upgrades and the likes.

Although overall, most 4th gen and probably half(?) of 4.5 aren't able to be at around the 1m2 frontal RCS.

So for non stealth ones, 1m2 is not that easy to hit or that common.

 

[Blitzo]

Hmm, yea i was a bit quick.

We can't decisively say for the smaller to medium ones, not to mention planes can go through upgrades and the likes.

Although overall, most 4th gen and probably half(?) of 4.5 aren't able to be at around the 1m2 frontal RCS.

So for non stealth ones, 1m2 is not that easy to hit or that common.

The point isn't how common they are, but rather what makes sense as a standard of measurement for an opfor "fighter aircraft" for modern radar systems especially operated by modern military forces.

Most of the world is operating late third, early fourth generation fighters by that measure -- if the opfor is such a low standard then whatever.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

The point isn't how common they are, but rather what makes sense as a standard of measurement for an opfor "fighter aircraft" for modern radar systems especially operated by modern military forces.

Most of the world is operating late third, early fourth generation fighters by that measure -- if the opfor is such a low standard then whatever.

Yea, i got sidetracked/did not grasp the important point.

But at the same time, likely opponents for the J10 is more 3, 4 and 4.5.
Not supposed to really be 'dueling' 5th gen or newer (such a circumstance might happen sure, but should not be primary expectation).

And I say it's doubtsome that similar weight class 4.5 have better radar than the J10 as well.

 

[Phead128]

....PAF has done the plane the greatest marketing imaginable.

Does anyone remember the crazy Pakistani marketing video for J-10C?

Obligatory throw-back video (must watch!!)

I got chills in my spine at 2:33 , esp. post May 7th, he is especially prescient.

 

[Gloire_bb]

IMO, KF-21 would probably be the closest with semi recessed pylons. Since missiles are usually cylindrical which apparently have pretty big side RCS plus right angled fins etc, it'll be pretty hard for other 4.5th gen to get to around 1m2.

Conformal weapon carriage, as far as I understand, isn't advantageous from RCS point of view. You're adding multiple sets of corner reflectors. Carefully designed pylons, limiting reflections and re-reflections, can in fact be way better.
I.e. it's aerodynamics only.

 

[Maikeru]

I had a think about which other countries might buy J-10, i.e. those that have both the requirement (e.g. to replace MiG-29s and/or Su-27s) and the means to buy them, and aren't western-aligned or otherwise unlikely to buy Chinese (e.g. Vietnam):

Uzbekistan (confirmed?)
Turkmenistan
Kazakhstan
Peru
Columbia
Venezuela
Algeria
Egypt
Belarus
Bangladesh
Sri Lanka


That's about it. Maybe scope for a few dozen sales out of that lot.

 

[mack8]

Yeah, would have been great if the serbian bros got some J-10CEs alongside their other chinese systems like SAMs. I wonder if it's too late to reconsider?
Same goes for Indonesia really (even if it looks like it's a done deal), Rafale looks like a tired horse nowadays, plus considering how the french kowtow to zionist sensibilities, will they even deliver Meteors to TNI-AU? At any rate PL-15 looks to be more than a match as well.