J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

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Lion

Senior Member
The J10B and J20 are totally different fighter classes and serve different roles within the PLAAF. You do not simply replace one with the other.

The J10B is probably taking so long because CAC is testing out new gen radar and avionics packages on it first, and also because it has become a secondary priority project with most of the company's resources focused on the J20.

If that is the case, probably J-10A can do that job fine. With a big plant in chengdu servicing AL-31F engines. I bet they have plans for many J-10A to continue for long. J-10A is also probably cheaper to operate than J-10B. Recent , exercise in Tibet show J-10A can perform precision strike using PGM. So its a very mature platform. Russian has no problem of continue supplying AL-31F engines for China.

The fact, J-10B has not form a regiment yet not to mention enter service soon with suspected J-20 operation date getting nearer and nearer. One could not speculate J-10B might just serve as an export for PAF. J-20 is a massive upgrade compare to J-10B. First, Super cruise and stealth both are archieved which is consider a massive advantge compare to J-10B since internal weapon bay is absent on J-10B. Second, definitely the J-20 range will surpass J-10B with bigger internal fuel capacity plus super cruise.

With AESA installed on J-10B, i bet the price of J-10B will not come cheap. So now you are operating a not very cheap platform plus with the upgrade of only radar, I do not think DSI on J-10B will have a massive advantage of RCS over a J-10A. It will improve but not to a heavy extend.

If I am PLAAF top brass, with engineers telling me J-20 project is going very smooth and going to be operational soon. I will strike off J-10B and go for a massive advantage of J-20. The lower class of plane will be filled by J-10A. Problem solved.
 
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escobar

Brigadier
J-10B has exist since last year and until now. Not even a regiment form, not even beyond the 4th prototype. If we think its the engine problem of WS-10. Then why is J-11B, J-11BS and J-15 keep cranking out with domestic engines? Obviously , WS-10 are doing well. Engine definitely is not a problem.

J-10B came in 2009 and it is an advanced plane(at least for china) so testing take a lot of time. That is "probably " why we have not seen a regiment forming.

You want proof? wait a few more days, we already have few clear photo of high possible second prototype. Then I will paste it here, ok? PLus a Major General has also speak up on J-20 at CCP congress, informing all members J-20 will soon enter service, if 2017-2018 is the operation date, it is not the soon date and need not to inform all members on a high profile meeting. The fact, he claim ' not this year' is a very good indicative of either next year or 2014. We have news and speculation from big shrimp that J-20 so far is progressing very well. There is no reason to believe J-20 will not enter service soon.

Sorry but the "soon" is very elusive. it would be better to wait 2-3 years before "speculate"

I agreed this is a speculation part. But consider USAF has only 187 F-22.. All PLAAF do is to have a 85% plane as good as F-22 but outnumber it by 3times. It will have a massive advantage.

Frankly it is too simplistic.

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

:)

DyX03.jpg

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franco-russe

Senior Member
It Seems No One Cares This anymore

Sure, it is in fact very interesting: 9 J-10A counted in the three southern shelters at Chengdu, none with unit numbers.

The conservative assessment would be that they are the second squadron for 15 Div 43 Regt Huairen.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I want :p the original photo without that red circle :mad: !!!!

... anyway a nice close up with the white WL-9 radio compass antenna behind the canopy.

Deino
 

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
If that is the case, probably J-10A can do that job fine. With a big plant in chengdu servicing AL-31F engines. I bet they have plans for many J-10A to continue for long. J-10A is also probably cheaper to operate than J-10B. Recent , exercise in Tibet show J-10A can perform precision strike using PGM. So its a very mature platform. Russian has no problem of continue supplying AL-31F engines for China.

Irrelevant, and highly questionable.

On what basis are you suggesting that the J10A will be cheaper to operate than J10B?

The biggest difference between the two in terms of operational costs would be from the engines. With the WS10A being domestic, meaning all spares are domestic instead of imported, that alone would translate into pretty significant operational cost savings. In addition, it is very likely that the WS10A will have better MTBO, total service life and fuel economy compared to the AL31, which again would translate into lower service costs.

One of the biggest advantages of AESA over conventional radar in terms of maintenance and operational costs is that many of the individual T/R models could fail, but the radar would still work. More advanced self diagnostic systems could also further reduce operational costs.

As for the AL31 refurb plant, well that could be converted into a WS10A refurb plant, and no doubt will be in the future. The AL31 has served the PLAAF well, but China is not going to be using it forever.

The fact, J-10B has not form a regiment yet not to mention enter service soon with suspected J-20 operation date getting nearer and nearer.

As has been pointed out many times already, J20 has nothing to do with the J10B. These planes are in completely different weight classes.

One could not speculate J-10B might just serve as an export for PAF.

Extremely unlike. China would not build 4 flying prototypes for an export only plane.

J-20 is a massive upgrade compare to J-10B. First, Super cruise and stealth both are archieved which is consider a massive advantge compare to J-10B since internal weapon bay is absent on J-10B. Second, definitely the J-20 range will surpass J-10B with bigger internal fuel capacity plus super cruise.

Again, irrelevant. They serve different purposes within the PLAAF.

With AESA installed on J-10B, i bet the price of J-10B will not come cheap.

It might be more expansive than the J10A, but it will still only be a fraction of the cost of a J20.

So now you are operating a not very cheap platform plus with the upgrade of only radar, I do not think DSI on J-10B will have a massive advantage of RCS over a J-10A. It will improve but not to a heavy extend.

Which indicates you clearly do not appreciate just what the J10B represents.

It is not just a J10A with new AESA radar and DSI, just from casual external observations, we know that it sports a new integrated EW suit, IRST and WS10A engines. Internally, it is extremely likely to be sporting a vastly improved avionics suit. It may well boost China's first 5th gen avionics suit and would be more comparable to what will be installed in the J20 rather than the J10A.

If I am PLAAF top brass, with engineers telling me J-20 project is going very smooth and going to be operational soon. I will strike off J-10B and go for a massive advantage of J-20. The lower class of plane will be filled by J-10A. Problem solved.

So you would stop all production of J10s now?

China still have hundreds of J7s and J8s that need replacing very soon, even some of the first Flankers are being retired already. Are you proposing that they are all replaced with J20s?

The PLAAF and PLANAF will need many hundreds, maybe over a thousand new fighters in the next few decades. They cannot all be J20s. No matter how more much expensive a J10B is compared to a J10A, there is little to no chance that it will cost more than a J11B, and probably far less than a J11B with AESA radar. If the PLAAF don't buy more J10s, what would you have them use?

The J10A is good enough today, but in even 10 years time, it will start to show it's age and will need to be upgraded with just the kind of things that make the J10B more expansive in order to stay useful. So why 'strike off' the J10B and just buy more J10As only to have to upgrade them to J10B standard in a few years time anyways?

The PLAAF is not buying J10Bs right now because it is not yet ready for operations. When it is ready, you can be sure that they will switch production to it from J10A.
 
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