Iranian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Specifications of the SAM (it is thought either Taer-2C or Sayyad-2C was used):

[no it is not a Buk clone before anyone asks! totally different and superior system - just compare their ranges and missiles used etc]

Yes, Iran has clearly shown it has its own quite robust solid rocket industry, with not only that product but many others.
I was also surprised to know that Iran has a quite sophisticated steel manufacturing and processing industry.
To the point where it used to be one of the main imports of Iran but now the country is self reliant on its own steel.
This will be important for the tank and naval industry and many others in the future.

Iran’s air defense missiles must be taken seriously, experts say

Oh for Kripes sake.
MQ4C and RQ4C are not penetrator aircraft. Triton is a maritime patrol aircraft. In fact given the reports of damaged tankers it’s exactly what you would want flying around to see if it really is the Iranians planting mines.
It’s about as Stealthy as a 737. Which isn’t stealthy.
If it was in Iranian airspace than someone F’ed up. Because as proven it would survive there.
The US has been proven to have VLO drones for similar missions that can penetrate Iran, and after the RQ170 incident are almost assured to have been hardened to prevent spoofing.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Oh for Kripes sake.
MQ4C and RQ4C are not penetrator aircraft. Triton is a maritime patrol aircraft. In fact given the reports of damaged tankers it’s exactly what you would want flying around to see if it really is the Iranians planting mines.
It’s about as Stealthy as a 737. Which isn’t stealthy.
If it was in Iranian airspace than someone F’ed up. Because as proven it would survive there.
The US has been proven to have VLO drones for similar missions that can penetrate Iran, and after the RQ170 incident are almost assured to have been hardened to prevent spoofing.

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Doesn't really matter, from 20-30 km it is relatively easy to shoot down even an F-35/F-22.

Radar equation you know....

And I doubt that any drone penetrated Iran since the RQ170 incident.

The downing of the drone means they know the position of it, and since that we can be sure there is a hunting season for USA drones in Iran airspace.

You know, they do the same that the USA would do with an Iranian drone above Florida.

No, 20-30 KM is detection range kill range is down to about a dozen. The F117 back in 1999 had no countermeasures or ability to sense radar threats. Although it was detected at 20-30km it was only able to be targeted for attack after it had opened it’s weapons bay door and was only 14km out.

F22 and even more so F35 have a full ECM suite. They are designed to detect Radar emissions and use them to triangulate the source. Allowing them to either navigate around or target it for either electronic or kinetic attack.

As to the latter we don’t know and likely will not know. But I doubt your hypothesis. The Method of Spoofing seems likely as the method of detection. IE they detected its signal likely by its Datalink and then used that to Highjack the Drone.
They didn’t shoot down the drone they crashed it.
Knowing about the Drone and having a rough idea of what it may be up to doesn’t mean being able to detect and attack it.

RQ170 was being reported as early as 2005. Deployment to Afghanistan and operations from There were rumored in American aviation magazines that early. It wouldn’t be hard for the Iranians to get an idea of it. All they would need is to keep an eye around Afghan airbases to see its course, launch and recovery times.
The. Decided to try something. The something that worked was electronic and signals attack.
But just because it worked once doesn’t mean it would work again.
20-30 KM isn’t that far, and 14 km is even closer. Changes in the control system and data link were probably made to lock others out of the same stunt. So it’s still possible.

By contrast this drone the RQ4/MQ4 isn’t stealthy at all. It’s intended for permissible operations primarily For the MQ4 Maritime observation and Patrol with out attack. The platform it partially replaced is either the RQ135 based on a 707 or the P-3 Orion.

It’s ability to be shot down is like the recent Buk attack on a Russian aircraft. The fact that it could happen isn’t the issue that it did is.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

No, 20-30 KM is detection range kill range is down to about a dozen. The F117 back in 1999 had no countermeasures or ability to sense radar threats. Although it was detected at 20-30km it was only able to be targeted for attack after it had opened it’s weapons bay door and was only 14km out.

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You mean the Iranians still use the 1962 vintage technology ? : )

Anyway, the bomb door was required to establish the altitude of the aircraft.
The position was visible on the 2D radar, but the S band radar hasn't got enough return to see the altitude.
But the system was close to 40 years old at the downing.

The F22 and even more so F35 have a full ECM suite. They are designed to detect Radar emissions and use them to triangulate the source. Allowing them to either navigate around or target it for either electronic or kinetic attack.

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They can't do too much about the UHF radars. And the batteries will active they radars only when they are in shooting position, and that is too late to avoid them.
It is not Patriot, with a common search/fire control radar.

As to the latter we don’t know and likely will not know. But I doubt your hypothesis. The Method of Spoofing seems likely as the method of detection. IE they detected its signal likely by its Datalink and then used that to Highjack the Drone.
They didn’t shoot down the drone they crashed it.
Knowing about the Drone and having a rough idea of what it may be up to doesn’t mean being able to detect and attack it.

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To be able to use electronic attack on the drone require to know its position. Only way to override the command signal is to use directional antennas.
If they know where is the plane then they can activate the closest defence batteries to shoot it down, or the electronic warfare units to confuse it.


You try to downplay the significance of this downing.

Few important points:
-it was done by an Iranian made system
-They used early warning radars to establish the situation, and later on medium range system to handle the targets - exactly that you can expect to defeat a low observation plane as well
-They know well the actual situation in the area as well - it wasn't just a random launch, it was coordinated from the central air command of Iran.

Most of their Airforce is 1960s era. Most of their conventional ground forces the same.
The return they were getting was thin. Even against a modern X band it’s not going to get a solid return.
UHF Radar are huge and produce a nebulous return. This is why X band is the preferred system.
They may gain a return but the quality and ability to render that actionable is doubious.

As to the attack that depends on the Data link. MALDS and IFDL used on fifth gen fighters are directional. But other Data link systems are not. Farther more RQ170 is believed to have been using a surface scan radar system that may also have allowed detection and tracking.
Also you assume that this was Iranian made equipment since we have never seen the system used and the exact nature of the attack is not stated by either side that is nebulous. ( in regards to the RQ170) Many believe that critical to that incident was a Russian made 1L222 passive detection system, not Radar.

You down play the Electronic attack capabilities of modern Aviation for a penetration aircraft using a incident from 2011 has your point of reference. It’s been 7 years and to assume that since then there has been no change is folly.

I point out that the systems and incidents we are discussing are worlds apart.
RQ170 was a small penetrating surveillance drone built to insert into moderate threat zones and support operations designed off second generation technologies. As a Drone it had limited space or need for air defenses and relied on a passive RCS reduction. Using a surface scan radar. With an unknown data link type that appears to have been attacked. Again 20-30 km for detection. Push up a UHF maybe 50-70 Km. That’s not a huge amount of sky.

F117 was THE first generation of Stealth aircraft it was designed solely to avoid attack by radar. It lacked a huge set of mission equipment. The System it faced was a Buk from which the Iranian system is an “Improved model”.

F22 and F35 are the operation unto it’s self designed for high risk air Defence zones. They are as much sensors and Electronic warfare platforms as fighters. they come complete with a substantial Countermeasures capability. UHF band radar is over hyped.

MQ4C Triton lacks a reduced cross section and many defenses There is no “Stealth mode”. Despite Iranian claims it may well have been operating in a perceived permissive zone until someone decided to change the rules. Subsonic and designed for cruise efficiency it’s basically undefended. Any SAM system could have made the downing with out any issue. Which is what I was trying to point to. The fact that that system and a P8 Poseidon ( 737 based with a crew of 9) were employed at altitude should raise questions of what ROE was employed by the Iranians and where There claimed air space starts.

I looked at the video which showed the debris.
The drone seemed to have large honeycomb panels. I don't know if this was to reduce weight or to reduce radar return.
But I would assume the RQ-4 does in fact have some stealth characteristics. Of course not as much as the RQ-170.

The Sayyaad-3 is no slouch though. It has similar or better range and speed compared with the Patriot PAC-2. The radar component is also allegedly an AESA.

I would love to see your radar equation

Anlsvrthng said:

Doesn't really matter, from 20-30 km it is relatively easy to shoot down even an F-35/F-22.

Radar equation you know....

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I would love to see your radar equation of the Sayyad-2C against a F-35/F-22.