Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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GiantPanda

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Gloire_bb said:
Tejas is only nominally in service in the first place.

But either way, it's either mk.1 (elta 2032 and i-derby ER) or soon to come mk.1a (elta-2052 and same missile). First is adapted Lavi radar(planar array), second is it's AESA version.
Comparison of either to mig-21 radars is laughable, nothing close was ever proposed for the fishbed.

I-derby is already a small PL-15 in the first place (it's a dual pulse weapon, just much smaller; one of 3 such weapons in combat service by the way, together with...PL-15 and AIM-120D). Since it was bought as an emergency procurement after 2019, one would guess it flies further than the old RVV-AE.
Astra will probably come on one bright day, eventually, too.

I don't know what's the state of a2g integration with Tejas, but given that "make in India" tends to mean "Israeli" - it's either rampage (already in Indian service, on mig-29upg and mig-29k) or Lora(soon to come). Both were shown in combat recently, with a stellar - better than CM400 two months ago, - performance record (especially in unilaterally killed civilians, but for both developer and customer in our case it's a viable use scenario).

JF-17 is a mature program, plain and square. But it's mature, not the least, because Chengdu didn't aim for the stars and rather ambitious aerodynamic shape back in 1990s, instead going for classic controls and conservative shape. Now, with blk.iii, it's a different story. Tejas aimed there from day 1, and it's part of the reason it took so long.
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Tejas didn't shoot for the stars. It was widely touted as the "lightest" of light combat aircraft to save on costs. Basically they set a low bar compared to a medium aircraft like the J-10 that was developed around the same time.

All the additions are tacked on because they couldn't deliver on the base LCA and needed them to be relevant since it so late.

Again, they didn't engage the Tejas in May while the JF-17 saw action in both this engagement and in 2019. I see nothing from the Tejas that indicates any kind of great ambition. They failed on delivering a cheap light platform and are now trying to spin a self-serving tale that it was only because they want something "better."

If they were ambitious they would have tried a J-10/F-16 type medium fighter with the potential to worth the ambition. There is simply no way to be ambitious with an aircraft that is completely limited by its small size to be not much more than a point defense fighter.
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
GiantPanda said:
Tejas didn't shoot for the stars. It was widely touted as the "lightest" of light combat aircraft to save on costs. Basically they set a low bar compared to a medium aircraft like the J-10 that was developed around the same time.
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Aircraft weight isn't exactly a measurement of lowered ambitions. When Tejas program began in late 1980s, unstable, full authority fbw aircraft were the very edge.
It was to be cheaper, but not less ambitious.
GiantPanda said:
Again, they didn't engage the Tejas in May while the JF-17 saw action in both this engagement and in 2019. I see nothing from the Tejas that indicates any kind of great ambition. They failed on delivering a cheap light platform and are now trying to spin a self-serving tale that it was only because they want something "better."
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Much of the reason Tejas is in limbo is because they set themselves an unachievable initial goal. They still can't meet it.

When JF-17 was flying in combat in 2019, it wasn't matching that original goal of Tejas(and even block III is somewhat less ambitious, because it's a concervstive stable planeform). It focused on execution, on actual capabilities (bvr; ground strike; etc), not the fanciness.

And precisely because of that it was long since delivered, on schedule and on budget Pakistan could afford. And now even has a fbw blk.iii operational before Indian tejas... and that's without considering Kaveri, Uttam and other Twitter codewords.
GiantPanda said:
If they were ambitious they would have tried a J-10/F-16 type medium fighter with the potential to worth the ambition. There is simply no way to be ambitious with an aircraft that is completely limited by its small size to be not much more than a point defense fighter.
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I think you're confusing two different things. You can make smaller and larger aircraft on the same tech level. Or you can make aircraft of same size more and less conservative. Mistakes on both sliders are highly consequential.

And the very problem is that Tejas was meant to be more or less a J-10a in a light fighter world. A world level aircraft that China, back then, just barely managed, but India couldn't and still can't achieve.
 
AlexYe

AlexYe

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Black Wolf said:

India Says No To Russia’s Su-57 Jets, S-500 Air Defense System​


A symbolic chapter in India’s long-standing defense ties with Russia appears to be drawing to a close. On July 1, 2025, the Indian Navy officially commissioned INS Tamal – its last warship built in a Russian shipyard. A silent milestone. A quiet full stop on decades of Moscow-built steel flowing into Indian waters.



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caudaceus said:
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Two news sites both Indian, both saying the opposite thing of each other. What is this spaghetti man...
Black Wolf said:

India's Bid to Acquire Russian Tu-160M Strategic Bombers with BrahMos Integration​


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As someone relatively new to Indian Def/military stuff..
Is this normal for Indian circles to pump out atleast 3-4 Defense related news DAILY?? The def-twitter accounts are even worse, its like everyday some new grand innovation is coming.
This is normal? Is this why this thread has 3x more pages than the Pakistan one..?
 
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GiantPanda

Junior Member
Registered Member
Gloire_bb said:
Aircraft weight isn't exactly a measurement of lowered ambitions. When Tejas program began in late 1980s, unstable, full authority fbw aircraft were the very edge.
It was to be cheaper, but not less ambitious.
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Aircraft weight is most certainly a measure of lowered ambitions. Why would you build a F-5 instead of a F-16 if you are ambitious? How is limiting yourself to basically a point defense fighter ambitious? Now the KAAN is ambitious when your first indigenous fighter is a heavyweight to match stealth fighters in a handful of major powers -- not a F-5 or MiG-21 in an age that was already dominated by the F-16 and Euro-canard programs.

As for FBW. After the F-16 in 1973, every fighter program including the J-10 which started a few years earlier than the LCA was FBW. It had become the standard.

The JF-17 had FBW in the pitch in the beginning for better risk management and then full FBW in Block 3.

Nothing in the LCA was particularly ambitious. They just failed to deliver a light fighter on time -- worse they failed on a class is that was already basically operationally obsolete for continental sized countries like China and India.
 
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tamsen_ikard

Senior Member
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Is there any weapon designed and produced by India that is not shit tier? Even their Insas rifle is terrible. Their tank is a failure, their ships look like a hodgepodge of various imported components.
 
AlexYe

AlexYe

Junior Member
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
Is there any weapon designed and produced by India that is not shit tier? Even their Insas rifle is terrible. Their tank is a failure, their ships look like a hodgepodge of various imported components.
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Uhhh the helicopter thingie?? The light Utility heli..? Although idk much about it,
Various arty units?? Drones ?
Akash is apparently shit tier so doesnt count.. what else is 100% indian designed and made...
 
G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Black Wolf said:
IAF's Second Order of 97 Tejas Mk1A to Feature Higher Indigenous Content and Enhanced Software
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Other than the airframe and software what is Indian about this aircraft? They are importing engines, radar, avionics hardware, even the ejection seat.

GiantPanda said:
As for FBW. After the F-16 in 1973, every fighter program including the J-10 which started a few years earlier than the LCA was FBW. It had become the standard.
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To be frank the MiG-29 and MiG-31 did not have FBW either.
The Su-27 had FBW because Sukhoi developed the technology previously in their T-4 bomber.

But then again the MiG-29 and MiG-31 entered service before the Tejas program even started.
The MiG-35 has FBW.

GiantPanda said:
The JF-17 had FBW in the pitch in the beginning for better risk management and then full FBW in Block 3.

Nothing in the LCA was particularly ambitious. They just failed to deliver a light fighter on time -- worse they failed on a class is that was already basically operationally obsolete for continental sized countries like China and India.
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They designed an aircraft which was low tech even when the program started. Basically an Indian Mirage aircraft clone. It typically takes 10 years to develop an aircraft so of course it was obsolete on arrival. So they kept redesigning it.

tamsen_ikard said:
Is there any weapon designed and produced by India that is not shit tier? Even their Insas rifle is terrible. Their tank is a failure, their ships look like a hodgepodge of various imported components.
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Not that I can remember.
 
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valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
AlexYe said:
Is this normal for Indian circles to pump out atleast 3-4 Defense related news DAILY?? The def-twitter accounts are even worse, its like everyday some new grand innovation is coming.
This is normal? Is this why this thread has 3x more pages than the Pakistan one..?
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Yes. The Indian 'defense experts' produce much garbage in great volume. Don't think about it too much. Lots and lots of hype.

The reason why this thread has 3x more pages has a lot to do with the Indians regularly announcing something with much hype, people coming here to laugh at them, and then repeating every 3-4 weeks. Sometimes there is an actual event (Galwan, May 7th) that brings people here to point and laugh more intensely.
 
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