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Pataliputra

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Fat chance of that. The French won't transfer 100% of the technology for any modern engine. You can pretty much bet on that.
Maybe for the engine on a Mirage 2000.

You can get them to aid in developing an engine or do joint engine manufacturing where they do the critical components. But not 100% tech transfer of modern engine technology.

This is a major bread earner for them. Rafale has been an export success lately and is still gaining orders. So why would they give the keys to the kingdom like that.
To secure its position in the turbofan engine market, France must collaborate with India. India is poised to develop an engine with or without partnership with France. Without collaboration, France risks losing access to the Indian market and facing stiff competition globally. Additionally, France, like India, requires engines for 5th generation fighter jets. Developing engines independently would be prohibitively expensive, especially for a smaller country and economy like France's.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
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To secure its position in the turbofan engine market, France must collaborate with India. India is poised to develop an engine with or without partnership with France. Without collaboration, France risks losing access to the Indian market and facing stiff competition globally. Additionally, France, like India, requires engines for 5th generation fighter jets. Developing engines independently would be prohibitively expensive, especially for a smaller country and economy like France's.


Oh come on … Indi can simply add nothing to this project but money and to think France would just hand over all its knowledge of modern aeroengine manufacturing is just as naive as some Turks think RR would sell them their Crown Jewels.

Again, India will surely proceed but alone the chance is almost ZERO that this will happen in my remaining lifetime for a reasonable 5th generation type let alone a 6th generation project.
 

Pataliputra

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Oh come on … Indi can simply add nothing to this project but money and to think France would just hand over all its knowledge of modern aeroengine manufacturing is just as naive as some Turks think RR would sell them their Crown Jewels.

Again, India will surely proceed but alone the chance is almost ZERO that this will happen in my remaining lifetime for a reasonable 5th generation type let alone a 6th generation project.
Why do you believe India cannot independently develop an engine for a fifth-generation fighter jet, given its mastery of cryogenic engine technology for satellite launches, as well as its capability to develop nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, and fighter jets?
And as mentioned earlier, Just like India, France and Britain are also aiming to develop fifth-generation fighter jets, requiring more powerful, stealthy, and efficient engines. Both countries may seek collaboration with India for mutual benefit.
 
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Deino

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Why do you believe India cannot independently develop an engine for a fifth-generation fighter jet, given its mastery of cryogenic engine technology for satellite launches, as well as its capability to develop nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, and fighter jets?
And as mentioned earlier, Just like India, France and Britain are also aiming to develop fifth-generation fighter jets, requiring more powerful, stealthy, and efficient engines. Both countries may seek collaboration with India for mutual benefit.


Well, please try it the other way around and explain us, why do you think we should belive taht India could do this independently while it tries the same for a fourth generation engine (the Kaveri) since decades without success, while it tries to develop and get a decent fourth generation fighter into service since decades without true success!? IMO India’s endless list of wishes, promised and in the end delays or just plain failures - I would call this a hard reality check - gives me NOT A SINGLE jota of hope, India could develop a faith generation let a fifth generation fighter independently.

Do't get me wrong, and in no way I want to belittle India or its achievements and even more so its rise, but these constant claims what India will do as step 5 and 6 - aka dreaming about 5th & 6th generation fighters and more - while still not getting steps 3 and 4 done without falling is in fact embarrassing.
 
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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Why do you believe India cannot independently develop an engine for a fifth-generation fighter jet, given its mastery of cryogenic engine technology for satellite launches, as well as its capability to develop nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, and fighter jets?
And as mentioned earlier, Just like India, France and Britain are also aiming to develop fifth-generation fighter jets, requiring more powerful, stealthy, and efficient engines. Both countries may seek collaboration with India for mutual benefit.
That only happened after the Russians transferred cryogenic LOX/LH2 engine technology to India. The KVD-1 engine. India then developed the CE-20 supposedly on its own. An engine with lower performance in terms of specific impulse than the KVD-1.

Knowing India I also doubt they will invest in a long term joint development project with a foreign country. They always balk at it.
 

Pataliputra

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That only happened after the Russians transferred cryogenic LOX/LH2 engine technology to India. The KVD-1 engine. India then developed the CE-20 supposedly on its own. An engine with lower performance in terms of specific impulse than the KVD-1.

Knowing India I also doubt they will invest in a long term joint development project with a foreign country. They always balk at it.
Why would Russia transfer cryogenic engine technology to India when they're not even willing to transfer turbofan engine technology? Cryogenic engine technology is far more sensitive than turbofan engine technology.
And that too to a country like India, with an advanced nuclear program and possession of thermonuclear weapons.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
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Why would Russia transfer cryogenic engine technology to India when they're not even willing to transfer turbofan engine technology? Cryogenic engine technology is far more sensitive than turbofan engine technology.
And that too to a country like India, with an advanced nuclear program and possession of thermonuclear weapons.
Back then Russia transferred a license to the US to manufacture the RD-180 engine. The deal with India was nothing surprising really.
Cryogenic engines are kind of useless for nuclear weapons launchers anyway. It takes hours to fuel a liquid rocket. And because the cryogenic fuel boils off, you need to fuel it just before launch.
 

Pataliputra

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Back then Russia transferred a license to the US to manufacture the RD-180 engine. The deal with India was nothing surprising really.
Cryogenic engines are kind of useless for nuclear weapons launchers anyway. It takes hours to fuel a liquid rocket. And because the cryogenic fuel boils off, you need to fuel it just before launch.
Where did you come across the information that Russia transferred cryogenic engine technology to India?
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Why don't you guys just let the kid be.

He made a post claiming India is able to develop a 5th generation turbofan (class of F-119, WS-15, F-135/6, and IZD.30) and that UK and France may seek Indian assistance in their 5th/5.5th generation fighter. Acknowledge this is the internet and avoid going into an endless "discussion". Indians are too good at those types of "discussions".
 
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