I knew... When I saw that you posted in this thread, I just knew that it would be epic.
Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Wow, how hard is it for them to make a Mirage 2000 knockoff??It has been exactly 22 years since the first flight of Tejas, known at the time as the LCA. In the two plus decades since, 40 examples have been built, including all the prototype airframes. That's a production rate of less than two per year. Indians are fond of the phrase "slow and steady wins the race". They are certainly putting it into practice.
A bit harsh, the Indians at least moved the air intakes to below the wing. Still, if they had copied the very cost-effective and widely sold Mirage 2K then maybe Tejas wouldn't be such a heap of junk.
LCA was not the first Indian combat jet, they also had their own Marut before.
LCA was conceived in a time when China was still remixing J-7 in the hopes of getting some sales while the JF-17 (FC-1) was delayed and working through technical hurdles. LCA was in fact flying before the JF-17, by all known indicators, India's aircraft development was ahead (J-10 progress being a closely guarded secret at the time).
It is amazing that the LCA progress has totally stalled like this. Even more amazing is HAL trying to get export sales for the non-existent improved Tejas Mk1A. Basically selling paper airplanes...
Has anyone ever found an honest assessment of the LCA/Tejas program? 90% of what you read is flag-waving nonsense, the other 10% is surface-level speculation (corruption, changing goal posts, Kaveri failure, etc.)
I wouldn't question the design, they got Dassault to design it for them and they obviously know how to make planes. I wonder if the French just sold them the designs to modernised mirage 5 they had laying around.
Why the project failed is a mystery that may never be solved. The French wanted them to use the SNECMA engine, but the Indians insisted on developing their own first, then settling an American one, they did the typical Indian thing in changing their minds about everything, but they should have ended up with something at the end. It's 70s era technology, and even the most complex components like the engine are imported.
My theory is that the plane became too expensive to manufacture. They contracted each subcomponent to a different foreign country and when you add up the inefficiencies (and kickbacks) the final cost per airframe it ended up being similar to a fully assembled modern aircraft from France or Russia. It makes more sense to buy more Sukhois or Rafales than to put that much into an untested platform.
The Indians lost an amazing opportunity to be the licensed producer of the MiG-29 I think. MiG was scrapping the bottom of the barrel for most of the past three decades. They likely could have gotten a license to build it just like they have a license to build the T-90 tank. Might even have gotten a license to produce parts of the engine in due time. It would have been a much better aircraft than the Tejas.
Imagine if they became the sole source of Mig-29s after Russia closed its production lines
They'd have so much clout supplying parts for the dozens of countries that still operate the plane
Once they got the engines right they could also have produced an upgraded version for export without much Russian objection since Russia is focusing on the Su-30. A huge missed opportunity
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I think the Tejas was supposed to be a cheap single engine replacement for the hundreds of Mig 21s they had in service. The Mig 29 would have been too expensive for them to run in those numbers.
They should have teamed with Russia to jointly develop a single engined version just like Pakistan did with China.
I don't think they could have pulled off anything as successful as the JF-17. That was successful because China was capable enough to pull it off but still backward enough that a project like the JF-17 was worthwhile. It was a unique set of circumstances and I don't think China will involve itself in a similar project again.
By contrast, I can't think of a single "joint development" project with India that wasn't riddled with problems and ended in failure.
And also remember the customer I. E. PAF knew what the capabilities were and were going to be, they were focused and clear on what they wanted to achieve with the program and they did it unlike InAF and it's ever changing goal posts and believing their own bs of how LCA can be super duper fighter. Today Jf-17 Block III outguns everything that InAF has carrying 4 PL-15$ excluding the 220m 36 or so Rafales that they panic-bought after InAFs myth of superiority was busted by old F-16s and Jf-17s.
20 years ago PAF had zero BVR fighters and they had to panic buy F-7PGs and scrape together mirages from junk. Today they have BVR superiority over InAF, having less than 1/5th of the budget. Unbelievable, Indian incompetency and PAF leadership of clear vision and choosing the right partners. InAF had the whole world available to them and they squandered and they're squandering time again with the 5th gen project. See the evolution of their design, it's all converging towards F-35 and J-35 language. Again, they've wasted years reinventing the wheels to come up with something unoriginal. Atleast the Turks have something more unique and Koreans don't hide the fact that LM basically designed their aircraft that isn't even stealthy.
You could make a movie out of it